From: Andy Fulkerson (waf3@swbell.net)
Date: Sun Apr 07 2002 - 11:25:33 CDT
> philmont Digest Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:00:17 -0600 V01 #176
>
> Today's topics:
> 'Philmont Interactive Ranger'
> 'RE: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger'
> 'Re: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger'
> 'Re: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger'
> 'Trek #1'
> 'RE: [Philmont]: Trek #1: Our experience'
> 'Re: Philmont Trek 24, July 3 arrival'
> 'Philmont stories'
> 'Re: [Philmont]: Trek #1'
> 'Re:2002 Trek 5'
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 11:34:31 -0600
> From: Dennis Parker <dcp@sgi.com>
> Subject: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
> Our first choice of Trek #20 has been confirmed and it's time to start
> getting more serious information. Does anyone have experience with the
> Philmont Interactive Ranger program? Is it worth $50? We have the
> sectional maps. I'm particulary interested if the program shows hiking
> routes from camp to camp or additional trails not shown on the sectional
> maps.
>
> - Dennis Parker
> Lead Advisor for 712-C
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:41:49 -0800
> From: Dave Mayer <dave.mayer@southwest-consulting.com>
> Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
> I've had it for a little while and found a few things that I can do with it
> that I otherwise couldn't do. I like Topo! better, but it's going to be
> usable. Whether it's worth $50 depends on how much $50 is worth to you.
>
> They seem to have been a little sloppy when tracing the routes, and it's not
> very easy to do your own (Topo! is much easier), but as I said, usuable.
> Caveat emptor.
>
>
> <> Happy Trails, Dave <>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Parker [mailto:dcp@sgi.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> Subject: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
> Our first choice of Trek #20 has been confirmed and it's time to start
> getting more serious information. Does anyone have experience with the
> Philmont Interactive Ranger program? Is it worth $50? We have the
> sectional maps. I'm particulary interested if the program shows hiking
> routes from camp to camp or additional trails not shown on the sectional
> maps.
>
> - Dennis Parker
> Lead Advisor for 712-C
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
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> List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
> -------------------------------------------------------
> As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
> Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
> loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
> cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:49:38 -0600
> From: "David" <eagle2002@ameritech.net>
> Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
> My father bought it.
>
> Depends on if you used other mapping software before.
>
> It is nice to see the program events, associated pictures and trek.
>
> However, when it comes to viewing the map and where the trek goes there is
> no way to zoom out far enough to get the full picture of the trek.
>
> Other issues we found was if you purchase the additional GPS software it
> does not work with Garmin GPS III Plus systems. We wanted to import the way
> points from the trek into the GPS and then use our 3-D Topo-Quad mapping
> software from DeLorme to really see the trek. The DeLorme software is 100's
> times better for mapping your trek. Don't rely on the software for printing
> out good maps either. For the most part I would say we are disappointed in
> the software. That may be due to the fact we have better software already.
>
> Their support people are almost non-existent. They do not respond back and
> we are now trying to get our money back for the GPS portion. Note that we
> are not taking a GPS with us, it was to transfer the way points to the
> DeLorme map software.
>
> It was useful to help us pick a trek, but the sectional maps are what will
> be used on the trail and we found no use for the software beyond that.
>
> BTW- For those of you who also have the software, there is supposed to be
> another update posted this Friday to correct errors we found in a couple of
> the treks and other stuff they found.
>
>
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Parker" <dcp@sgi.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list philmont" <philmont@troop47.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 11:34 AM
> Subject: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
>> Our first choice of Trek #20 has been confirmed and it's time to start
>> getting more serious information. Does anyone have experience with the
>> Philmont Interactive Ranger program? Is it worth $50? We have the
>> sectional maps. I'm particulary interested if the program shows hiking
>> routes from camp to camp or additional trails not shown on the sectional
>> maps.
>>
>> - Dennis Parker
>> Lead Advisor for 712-C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
>> Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
>> Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
>> List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
>> List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
>> Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
>> loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
>> cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:55:28 -0500
> From: "Brent Steiner" <STEINERB@michigan.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Philmont Interactive Ranger
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> we bought the Interactive Ranger CD. It does have the route marked and
> gives information on distances between camps for the routes. It also
> gives information on minimum and maximum elevations for the day and the
> elevation change. These are interesting bits of information. I run a
> Windows NT machine and have found that the maps do not print well at all
> (might be an NT related problem since it does not say it works on NT).
> the software does give info on camps and activities and has a nice zoom
> in/zoom out feature. Not sure if its worth $50.00 bucks.....I was
> interested in the info it provided so I liked it even if I couldn't
> print the map segments.
>
> Brent Steiner
> Troop 141
> Philmont 2002 726
>
>>>> dcp@sgi.com 4/5/02 12:34:31 PM >>>
> Our first choice of Trek #20 has been confirmed and it's time to start
> getting more serious information. Does anyone have experience with
> the
> Philmont Interactive Ranger program? Is it worth $50? We have the
> sectional maps. I'm particulary interested if the program shows
> hiking
> routes from camp to camp or additional trails not shown on the
> sectional
> maps.
>
> - Dennis Parker
> Lead Advisor for 712-C
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
> Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
> Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
> List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
> List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
> -------------------------------------------------------
> As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
> Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
> loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
> cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:43:50 -0600
> From: "William Bryans/hist/cas/Okstate" <bry4061@okstate.edu>
> Subject: Trek #1
>
>
> This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> --=_alternative 006C60ED86256B92_=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> We just received confirmation that we have received Trek #1 for our crew.
> While a program-laden trek of minimum mileage, it suits nicely the
> experience and maturity level of the crew. See, it really does work to
> let the Scouts select the trek(s) they want!! I am pleased too because
> when I first went to Philmont in 2000 with my oldest son, we primarily
> hiked the north country. Now I will see some of the south.
>
> I would welcome any insights, helpful hints, or other words of wisdom from
> those who have experienced this trek, and/or any of its camps and
> programs. I have consulted Selden Ball's web page and others, but I
> suspect there are members of the list who can add to the information found
> there. The itinerary for Trek #1 is as follows: Vaca--Deer Lake
> Mesa--Cimmarroncito (layover)--Clark's Fork--Black Mountain--Buck
> Creek--Apache Springs--Fish Camp--New Arebu.
>
> I would particular welcome individual opinions about the best route from
> Clark's Fork to Black Mountain, as there seems to be several options. I
> also wonder how realistic a side hike to the Tooth is during this
> particular day. Of course any other information on this trek that all you
> Philmont veterans have will be equally welcomed.
>
>
> Bill Bryans
> Troop 828 Committee Chair, Stillwater, OK
> 2002 Expedition 716-C-1
> --=_alternative 006C60ED86256B92_=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We just received confirmation that we have
> received Trek #1 for our crew. While a program-laden trek of minimum
> mileage, it suits nicely the experience and maturity level of the crew.
> See, it really does work to let the Scouts select the trek(s) they
> want!! I am pleased too because when I first went to Philmont in 2000
> with my oldest son, we primarily hiked the north country. Now I will see
> some of the south.</font>
> <br>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I would welcome any insights, helpful
> hints, or other words of wisdom from those who have experienced this trek,
> and/or any of its camps and programs. I have consulted Selden Ball's web
> page and others, but I suspect there are members of the list who can add to
> the information found there. The itinerary for Trek #1 is as
> follows: Vaca--Deer Lake Mesa--Cimmarroncito (layover)--Clark's
> Fork--Black Mountain--Buck Creek--Apache Springs--Fish Camp--New Arebu.</font>
> <br>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I would particular welcome individual
> opinions about the best route from Clark's Fork to Black Mountain, as there
> seems to be several options. I also wonder how realistic a side hike to
> the Tooth is during this particular day. Of course any other information
> on this trek that all you Philmont veterans have will be equally
> welcomed.</font>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Bill Bryans</font>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Troop 828 Committee Chair, Stillwater,
> OK</font>
> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2002 Expedition 716-C-1</font>
> --=_alternative 006C60ED86256B92_=--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:15:56 -0500
> From: "David Royster" <droyster@carolina.rr.com>
> Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Trek #1: Our experience
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1DCBD.2B782BB0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> We did Trek #1 in July-August 1999 (725N). I have a few comments.
>
> 1) We enjoyed the Trek greatly. We were hit by spell of wet weather,
> but it wasn't so bad that we did not enjoy it.
>
> 2) We had an afternoon drop-off on our first day going to Vaca, so on
> the next morning, we went to Harlan (very close by) and the boys did
> shotgun shooting. Plus, we ate supper for lunch at Harlan, since Deer
> Lake Mesa has a lake, but we were informed that year to really treat it
> as a dry camp.
>
> 3) The night on Deer Lake Mesa "surrounded" by 5 male black bears
> determining territory for mating was unforgetable, to say the least. We
> didn't see even one, but we heard them through most of the night.
>
> 4) You pass through Ute Gulch Commissary and pick up your food. You can
> hike to Cimarroncito and come back for food - but we didn't want to have
> to come back.
>
> 5) Take the Grouse Canyon trail from Ute Gulch Commissary to
> Cimarroncito. It is not tough and gives you some beautiful scenery.
>
> 6) In going from Cimmaroncito to Clark's Fork, go through Hidden Valley
> and eat breakfast at Window Rock - great experience.
>
> 7) I will give you our experience in going from Clark's Fork to Black
> Mountain Camp. As you said there are multiple options. We could not
> have made a side hike to the Tooth as you will see.
> (1) Go over Schaefer's Pass down to North Urraca and up the
> creek to Black Mountain Camp. There are MULTIPLE creek crossings and
> the creek was up we were told, so the crew opted against that choice.
> (2) Go North (the opposite of what you would expect) to
> Hunting Lodge, west to Lambert's Mine over Comanche Pass and down into
> Black Mountain. "Too far," the boy's thought.
> (3) Go over Black Mountain. Yea, right! Our crew opted for
> this and we advisors just followed along. First, up to Schaefer's Pass
> (a climb of about 1000 ft), eat breakfast there, load up on water there,
> then up toward's Black Mountain (another 1300 ft change in elevation).
> All was going well until lunch and the clouds gathered and the wind rose
> and all hail broke lose. We finished climbing to the top of Black in
> the rain (the hail storm was small and short lived). We got to the top
> and spent an hour looking for the trail that goes from the top of Black
> Mountain directly down into Black Mountain Camp - never found it! At
> that point we either had to go back - not a favorite idea for any of us,
> or use the alternative trail that goes west from the summit of Black
> Mountain to Comanche Pass, and then into Black Mountain Camp. We left
> Clark's Fork at about 6:30 AM and finally trudged into Black Mountain
> Camp about 8:00 PM. No, we were never lost - just a might bewildered at
> times. When we got there and the staff checked us in, they checked and
> found a little food for the boys that was prepared. One plate of
> Macaroni & Cheese - shared by 8 15-year olds. It didn't go far, but
> they said they didn't want anything more to eat - just sleep. This
> added a good 6 to 8 miles to the day and we had a workout.
>
> I have been told by different people that (1) the trail from the summit
> to the camp does not exist; (2) the trail does exist and we just missed
> it; and (3) the trail is used only by staff and is known only to them
> (more power to them!). It doesn't matter, it would have to have been
> steep and slippery on that day.
>
> 8) Buck Creek is a real nice trail camp in a meadow. Just be careful
> of the cow pies. Stop at Phillips Junction for a food pick up, and hope
> they have some fruit!
>
> 9) Buck Creek to Apache Springs: If the weather has been dry, then it
> is worth going through Bear Canyon and Turkey Creek. If the weather has
> been wet, this will be a little swampy in places, so we opted to take
> the high road (alternate route) around to Apache Springs. It is a flat
> road and easy hiking. We were serenaded by a pack of coyotes our night
> at Apache Springs - I never knew so many people could jump so high out
> of a sleeping bag!
>
> 10) Fish Camp is wonderful for the crew - tying flys and fishing. Tour
> the cabin.
>
> 11) Fish Camp to Abreu - This is listed as the longest day hiking, but
> you are now in good shape and it doesn't take long to do this leg. We
> were shrouded in by clouds all day, so we didn't get to see the view
> that is supposed to be fantastic. Abreu has the cantina with root beer.
> Carbonation, caffine and stomachs not having seen it in at least a week
> don't mix real well here. Hot showers again! The buffalo tacos were
> great!
>
> 12) Pick up at Zastro Turnaround. Follow the trail to Zastro and over
> to the road. You can take the road from the Abreu Cantina to Zastro
> Turnaround, but it is not as nice nor scenic.
>
> All in all, we would choose to do this again with a crew of 14 or 15
> year olds who have some backpacking experience, but want to experience
> something other than hiking all day long. They greatly enjoyed the trek
> and would not have traded it for another.
>
> When we go back again, it will likely be our first choice - maybe we
> shouldn't make it first choice so we will get it though!
>
> Have a good time.
>
> David C. Royster Advisor, Venturing Crew 13
> 8504 Knollwood Circle email: droyster@carolina.rr.com
> Charlotte, NC 28223 Phone: 704.596.0692
> Wood Badge, SR-200 Bear (WOTW)
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1DCBD.2B782BB0
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> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
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> <BODY>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>We=20
> did Trek #1 in July-August 1999 (725N). I have a few=20
> comments.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>1) We enjoyed the Trek greatly. We were hit =
> by spell=20
> of wet weather, but it wasn't so bad that we did not enjoy=20
> it.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>2)=20
> We had an afternoon drop-off on our first day going to Vaca, so on the =
> next=20
> morning, we went to Harlan (very close by) and the boys did shotgun=20
> shooting. Plus, we ate supper for lunch at Harlan, since Deer Lake =
> Mesa=20
> has a lake, but we were informed that year to really treat it as a dry=20
> camp.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>3)=20
> The night on Deer Lake Mesa "surrounded" by 5 male black bears =
> determining=20
> territory for mating was unforgetable, to say the least. We didn't =
> see=20
> even one, but we heard them through most of the=20
> night.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>4)=20
> You pass through Ute Gulch Commissary and pick up your food. You =
> can hike=20
> to Cimarroncito and come back for food - but we didn't want to have to =
> come=20
> back.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>5)=20
> Take the Grouse Canyon trail from Ute Gulch Commissary to =
> Cimarroncito. It=20
> is not tough and gives you some beautiful =
> scenery.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>6)=20
> In going from Cimmaroncito to Clark's Fork, go through Hidden Valley and =
> eat=20
> breakfast at Window Rock - great =
> experience.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>7) I=20
> will give you our experience in going from Clark's Fork to Black =
> Mountain=20
> Camp. As you said there are multiple options. We could not =
> have made=20
> a side hike to the Tooth as you will see.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (1) Go over=20
> Schaefer's Pass down to North Urraca and up the creek to Black Mountain=20
> Camp. There are MULTIPLE creek crossings and the creek was up we =
> were=20
> told, so the crew opted against that =
> choice.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (2) Go=20
> North (the opposite of what you would expect) to Hunting Lodge, west to=20
> Lambert's Mine over Comanche Pass and down into Black Mountain. =
> "Too far,"=20
> the boy's thought.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (3) Go over=20
> Black Mountain. Yea, right! Our crew opted for this and we =
> advisors just=20
> followed along. First, up to Schaefer's Pass (a climb of about =
> 1000 ft),=20
> eat breakfast there, load up on water there, then up toward's Black =
> Mountain=20
> (another 1300 ft change in elevation). All was going well until =
> lunch and=20
> the clouds gathered and the wind rose and all hail broke lose. We =
> finished=20
> climbing to the top of Black in the rain (the hail storm was small and =
> short=20
> lived). We got to the top and spent an hour looking for the trail =
> that=20
> goes from the top of Black Mountain directly down into Black Mountain =
> Camp -=20
> never found it! At that point we either had to go back - not a =
> favorite=20
> idea for any of us, or use the alternative trail that goes west from the =
> summit=20
> of Black Mountain to Comanche Pass, and then into Black Mountain =
> Camp. We=20
> left Clark's Fork at about 6:30 AM and finally trudged into Black =
> Mountain Camp=20
> about 8:00 PM. No, we were never lost - just a might bewildered at =
>
> times. When we got there and the staff checked us in, they checked =
>
> and found a little food for the boys that was prepared. One =
> plate of=20
> Macaroni & Cheese - shared by 8 15-year olds. It didn't go =
> far, but=20
> they said they didn't want anything more to eat - just sleep. This =
> added a=20
> good 6 to 8 miles to the day and we had a =
> workout.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>I=20
> have been told by different people that (1) the trail from the summit to =
> the=20
> camp does not exist; (2) the trail does exist and we just missed it; and =
> (3) the=20
> trail is used only by staff and is known only to them (more power to=20
> them!). It doesn't matter, it would have to have been steep and =
> slippery=20
> on that day.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>8)=20
> Buck Creek is a real nice trail camp in a meadow. Just be =
> careful of=20
> the cow pies. Stop at Phillips Junction for a food pick up, and =
> hope they=20
> have some fruit!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>9)=20
> Buck Creek to Apache Springs: If the weather has been dry, then it =
> is=20
> worth going through Bear Canyon and Turkey Creek. If the weather =
> has been=20
> wet, this will be a little swampy in places, so we opted to take the =
> high road=20
> (alternate route) around to Apache Springs. It is a flat road and =
> easy=20
> hiking. We were serenaded by a pack of coyotes our night at Apache =
> Springs=20
> - I never knew so many people could jump so high out of a sleeping=20
> bag!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>10)=20
> Fish Camp is wonderful for the crew - tying flys and fishing. Tour =
> the=20
> cabin.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>11)=20
> Fish Camp to Abreu - This is listed as the longest day hiking, but you =
> are now=20
> in good shape and it doesn't take long to do this leg. We were =
> shrouded in=20
> by clouds all day, so we didn't get to see the view that is supposed to =
> be=20
> fantastic. Abreu has the cantina with root beer. =
> Carbonation,=20
> caffine and stomachs not having seen it in at least a week don't mix =
> real well=20
> here. Hot showers again! The buffalo tacos were=20
> great!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>12)=20
> Pick up at Zastro Turnaround. Follow the trail to Zastro and over =
> to the=20
> road. You can take the road from the Abreu Cantina to Zastro =
> Turnaround,=20
> but it is not as nice nor scenic.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>All=20
> in all, we would choose to do this again with a crew of 14 or 15 year =
> olds who=20
> have some backpacking experience, but want to experience something other =
> than=20
> hiking all day long. They greatly enjoyed the trek and would not =
> have=20
> traded it for another.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>When=20
> we go back again, it will likely be our first choice - maybe we =
> shouldn't make=20
> it first choice so we will get it though!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>Have=20
> a good time.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT =
> color=3D#0000ff><STRONG><FONT=20
> face=3DTahoma>David C.=20
> Royster =
> =20
> Advisor, Venturing Crew 13</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma>8504 Knollwood =
>
> Circle &=
> nbsp;=20
> email: droyster@carolina.rr.com</FONT> <BR><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma>Charlotte, NC =20
> 28223 &n=
> bsp; =20
> Phone: 704.596.0692</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma>Wood Badge,=20
> SR-200 &=
> nbsp; =20
> Bear (WOTW)</FONT> </STRONG></FONT></DIV></SPAN>
> <DIV><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1DCBD.2B782BB0--
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 06:01:14 -0500
> From: "Peter Hedglon" <explorer@twcny.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Philmont Trek 24, July 3 arrival
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1DC67.4B477140
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> MessageCrew Two sponsored by Revolutionary Trails Council (result of =
> merger of Land of the Oneidas and General Herkimer Councils) arrives at =
> Philmont July 3, 2002, and hits the trail on July 4th for Trek 24. =
> Would like to hear from any other July 3 arrivals, and any additional =
> comments on Trek 24. In addition, we hope to bring some new council =
> strips for the new council. How many of you how will be there July 3 =
> might want to trade for a new strip?
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: David Royster=20
> To: Multiple recipients of list philmont=20
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Trek #1: Our experience
>
>
> We did Trek #1 in July-August 1999 (725N). I have a few comments.
>
> 1) We enjoyed the Trek greatly. We were hit by spell of wet weather, =
> but it wasn't so bad that we did not enjoy it.
>
> 2) We had an afternoon drop-off on our first day going to Vaca, so on =
> the next morning, we went to Harlan (very close by) and the boys did =
> shotgun shooting. Plus, we ate supper for lunch at Harlan, since Deer =
> Lake Mesa has a lake, but we were informed that year to really treat it =
> as a dry camp.
>
> 3) The night on Deer Lake Mesa "surrounded" by 5 male black bears =
> determining territory for mating was unforgetable, to say the least. We =
> didn't see even one, but we heard them through most of the night.
>
> 4) You pass through Ute Gulch Commissary and pick up your food. You =
> can hike to Cimarroncito and come back for food - but we didn't want to =
> have to come back.
>
> 5) Take the Grouse Canyon trail from Ute Gulch Commissary to =
> Cimarroncito. It is not tough and gives you some beautiful scenery.
>
> 6) In going from Cimmaroncito to Clark's Fork, go through Hidden =
> Valley and eat breakfast at Window Rock - great experience.
>
> 7) I will give you our experience in going from Clark's Fork to Black =
> Mountain Camp. As you said there are multiple options. We could not =
> have made a side hike to the Tooth as you will see.
> (1) Go over Schaefer's Pass down to North Urraca and up the =
> creek to Black Mountain Camp. There are MULTIPLE creek crossings and =
> the creek was up we were told, so the crew opted against that choice.
> (2) Go North (the opposite of what you would expect) to =
> Hunting Lodge, west to Lambert's Mine over Comanche Pass and down into =
> Black Mountain. "Too far," the boy's thought.
> (3) Go over Black Mountain. Yea, right! Our crew opted for =
> this and we advisors just followed along. First, up to Schaefer's Pass =
> (a climb of about 1000 ft), eat breakfast there, load up on water there, =
> then up toward's Black Mountain (another 1300 ft change in elevation). =
> All was going well until lunch and the clouds gathered and the wind rose =
> and all hail broke lose. We finished climbing to the top of Black in =
> the rain (the hail storm was small and short lived). We got to the top =
> and spent an hour looking for the trail that goes from the top of Black =
> Mountain directly down into Black Mountain Camp - never found it! At =
> that point we either had to go back - not a favorite idea for any of us, =
> or use the alternative trail that goes west from the summit of Black =
> Mountain to Comanche Pass, and then into Black Mountain Camp. We left =
> Clark's Fork at about 6:30 AM and finally trudged into Black Mountain =
> Camp about 8:00 PM. No, we were never lost - just a might bewildered at =
> times. When we got there and the staff checked us in, they checked and =
> found a little food for the boys that was prepared. One plate of =
> Macaroni & Cheese - shared by 8 15-year olds. It didn't go far, but =
> they said they didn't want anything more to eat - just sleep. This =
> added a good 6 to 8 miles to the day and we had a workout.
>
> I have been told by different people that (1) the trail from the =
> summit to the camp does not exist; (2) the trail does exist and we just =
> missed it; and (3) the trail is used only by staff and is known only to =
> them (more power to them!). It doesn't matter, it would have to have =
> been steep and slippery on that day.
>
> 8) Buck Creek is a real nice trail camp in a meadow. Just be careful =
> of the cow pies. Stop at Phillips Junction for a food pick up, and hope =
> they have some fruit!
>
> 9) Buck Creek to Apache Springs: If the weather has been dry, then it =
> is worth going through Bear Canyon and Turkey Creek. If the weather has =
> been wet, this will be a little swampy in places, so we opted to take =
> the high road (alternate route) around to Apache Springs. It is a flat =
> road and easy hiking. We were serenaded by a pack of coyotes our night =
> at Apache Springs - I never knew so many people could jump so high out =
> of a sleeping bag!
>
> 10) Fish Camp is wonderful for the crew - tying flys and fishing. =
> Tour the cabin.
>
> 11) Fish Camp to Abreu - This is listed as the longest day hiking, but =
> you are now in good shape and it doesn't take long to do this leg. We =
> were shrouded in by clouds all day, so we didn't get to see the view =
> that is supposed to be fantastic. Abreu has the cantina with root beer. =
> Carbonation, caffine and stomachs not having seen it in at least a week =
> don't mix real well here. Hot showers again! The buffalo tacos were =
> great!
>
> 12) Pick up at Zastro Turnaround. Follow the trail to Zastro and over =
> to the road. You can take the road from the Abreu Cantina to Zastro =
> Turnaround, but it is not as nice nor scenic.
>
> All in all, we would choose to do this again with a crew of 14 or 15 =
> year olds who have some backpacking experience, but want to experience =
> something other than hiking all day long. They greatly enjoyed the trek =
> and would not have traded it for another.
>
> When we go back again, it will likely be our first choice - maybe we =
> shouldn't make it first choice so we will get it though!
>
> Have a good time.
>
> David C. Royster Advisor, Venturing Crew 13=20
> 8504 Knollwood Circle email: droyster@carolina.rr.com=20
> Charlotte, NC 28223 Phone: 704.596.0692=20
> Wood Badge, SR-200 Bear (WOTW)=20
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1DC67.4B477140
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Crew Two sponsored by Revolutionary =
> Trails Council=20
> (result of merger of Land of the Oneidas and General Herkimer Councils) =
> arrives=20
> at Philmont July 3, 2002, and hits the trail on July 4th for Trek =
> 24. =20
> Would like to hear from any other July 3 arrivals, and any additional =
> comments=20
> on Trek 24. In addition, we hope to bring some new council strips =
> for the=20
> new council. How many of you how will be there July 3 might want =
> to trade=20
> for a new strip?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
> <DIV=20
> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
> <A title=3Ddroyster@carolina.rr.com =
> href=3D"mailto:droyster@carolina.rr.com">David=20
> Royster</A> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
> title=3Dphilmont@troop47.com=20
> href=3D"mailto:philmont@troop47.com">Multiple recipients of list =
> philmont</A>=20
> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 05, 2002 =
> 4:15=20
> PM</DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Philmont]: Trek =
> #1: Our=20
> experience</DIV>
> <DIV><BR></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>We=20
> did Trek #1 in July-August 1999 (725N). I have a few=20
> comments.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>1) We enjoyed the Trek greatly. We were =
> hit by spell=20
> of wet weather, but it wasn't so bad that we did not enjoy=20
> it.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>2)=20
> We had an afternoon drop-off on our first day going to Vaca, so on the =
> next=20
> morning, we went to Harlan (very close by) and the boys did shotgun=20
> shooting. Plus, we ate supper for lunch at Harlan, since Deer =
> Lake Mesa=20
> has a lake, but we were informed that year to really treat it as a dry =
>
> camp.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>3)=20
> The night on Deer Lake Mesa "surrounded" by 5 male black bears =
> determining=20
> territory for mating was unforgetable, to say the least. We =
> didn't see=20
> even one, but we heard them through most of the=20
> night.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>4)=20
> You pass through Ute Gulch Commissary and pick up your food. You =
> can=20
> hike to Cimarroncito and come back for food - but we didn't want to =
> have to=20
> come back.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>5)=20
> Take the Grouse Canyon trail from Ute Gulch Commissary to =
> Cimarroncito. =20
> It is not tough and gives you some beautiful=20
> scenery.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>6)=20
> In going from Cimmaroncito to Clark's Fork, go through Hidden Valley =
> and eat=20
> breakfast at Window Rock - great =
> experience.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>7)=20
> I will give you our experience in going from Clark's Fork to Black =
> Mountain=20
> Camp. As you said there are multiple options. We could not =
> have=20
> made a side hike to the Tooth as you will =
> see.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (1) Go=20
> over Schaefer's Pass down to North Urraca and up the creek to Black =
> Mountain=20
> Camp. There are MULTIPLE creek crossings and the creek was up we =
> were=20
> told, so the crew opted against that =
> choice.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (2) Go=20
> North (the opposite of what you would expect) to Hunting Lodge, west =
> to=20
> Lambert's Mine over Comanche Pass and down into Black Mountain. =
> "Too=20
> far," the boy's thought.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff> =
> (3) Go=20
> over Black Mountain. Yea, right! Our crew opted for this and we =
> advisors=20
> just followed along. First, up to Schaefer's Pass (a climb of =
> about 1000=20
> ft), eat breakfast there, load up on water there, then up toward's =
> Black=20
> Mountain (another 1300 ft change in elevation). All was going =
> well until=20
> lunch and the clouds gathered and the wind rose and all hail broke =
> lose. =20
> We finished climbing to the top of Black in the rain (the hail storm =
> was small=20
> and short lived). We got to the top and spent an hour looking =
> for the=20
> trail that goes from the top of Black Mountain directly down into =
> Black=20
> Mountain Camp - never found it! At that point we either had to =
> go back -=20
> not a favorite idea for any of us, or use the alternative trail that =
> goes west=20
> from the summit of Black Mountain to Comanche Pass, and then into =
> Black=20
> Mountain Camp. We left Clark's Fork at about 6:30 AM and finally =
> trudged=20
> into Black Mountain Camp about 8:00 PM. No, we were never lost - =
> just a=20
> might bewildered at times. When we got there and the staff =
> checked us=20
> in, they checked and found a little food for the boys that was=20
> prepared. One plate of Macaroni & Cheese - shared by 8 =
> 15-year=20
> olds. It didn't go far, but they said they didn't want anything =
> more to=20
> eat - just sleep. This added a good 6 to 8 miles to the day and =
> we had a=20
> workout.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>I=20
> have been told by different people that (1) the trail from the summit =
> to the=20
> camp does not exist; (2) the trail does exist and we just missed it; =
> and (3)=20
> the trail is used only by staff and is known only to them (more power =
> to=20
> them!). It doesn't matter, it would have to have been steep and =
> slippery=20
> on that day.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>8)=20
> Buck Creek is a real nice trail camp in a meadow. Just be =
> careful=20
> of the cow pies. Stop at Phillips Junction for a food pick up, =
> and hope=20
> they have some fruit!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma =
> color=3D#0000ff>9)=20
> Buck Creek to Apache Springs: If the weather has been dry, then =
> it is=20
> worth going through Bear Canyon and Turkey Creek. If the weather =
> has=20
> been wet, this will be a little swampy in places, so we opted to take =
> the high=20
> road (alternate route) around to Apache Springs. It is a flat =
> road and=20
> easy hiking. We were serenaded by a pack of coyotes our night at =
> Apache=20
> Springs - I never knew so many people could jump so high out of a =
> sleeping=20
> bag!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>10) Fish Camp is wonderful for the crew - tying flys =
> and=20
> fishing. Tour the cabin.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>11) Fish Camp to Abreu - This is listed as the longest =
> day=20
> hiking, but you are now in good shape and it doesn't take long to do =
> this=20
> leg. We were shrouded in by clouds all day, so we didn't get to =
> see the=20
> view that is supposed to be fantastic. Abreu has the cantina =
> with root=20
> beer. Carbonation, caffine and stomachs not having seen it in at =
> least a=20
> week don't mix real well here. Hot showers again! The =
> buffalo=20
> tacos were great!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>12) Pick up at Zastro Turnaround. Follow the =
> trail to=20
> Zastro and over to the road. You can take the road from the =
> Abreu=20
> Cantina to Zastro Turnaround, but it is not as nice nor=20
> scenic.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>All in all, we would choose to do this again with a =
> crew of 14=20
> or 15 year olds who have some backpacking experience, but want to =
> experience=20
> something other than hiking all day long. They greatly enjoyed =
> the trek=20
> and would not have traded it for another.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>When we go back again, it will likely be our first =
> choice -=20
> maybe we shouldn't make it first choice so we will get it=20
> though!</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
> color=3D#0000ff>Have a good time.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT=20
> face=3DTahoma></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D189244120-05042002><FONT =
> color=3D#0000ff><STRONG><FONT=20
> face=3DTahoma>David C.=20
> =
> Royster =
> =20
> Advisor, Venturing Crew 13</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma>8504 =
> Knollwood=20
> =
> Circle &=
> nbsp;=20
> email: droyster@carolina.rr.com</FONT> <BR><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma>Charlotte,=20
> NC =20
> =
> 28223 &n=
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:00:31 -0600
> From: "Michael Connelly" <mrobertc@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Philmont stories
>
>
> I need some help. My initial book of Philmont ghost stories is doing so
> well in the book stores and on Amazon etc. that the publisher wants me to
> write a sequel. This time they want not only stories from Philmont, but from
> all of New Mexico and nearby states. If any of you have any experiences you
> would like to share, I would love to hear about them. And if you are aware
> of any purportedly haunted sites in New Mexico or surounding states which I
> need to visit, please share those with me also.
> If you're attending Philmont this summer, keep a lookout for the
> permanent residents.
> Thanks,
> Michael Connelly
> Author of "Riders in the Sky: The Ghosts and Legends of Philmont Scout
> Ranch."
> mrobertc@hotmail.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:12:29 -0500
> From: Brian Gannon <bgannon@cox.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Trek #1
>
>
> While working as Ranger in 1997, I spent almost an entire trek with a
> crew doing Trek 1 since one of their advisors was unable to continue on
> the trail due to a knee injury. Even though it is #1, there are some
> difficult hikes.
>
> Some comments...
>
> --Arrive at Philmont early on your arrival day. This way you will get a
> morning bus the following morning to Turkey Creek Turnaround, from which
> you hike to Vaca. It is a good hike to Vaca and the trail is very hot
> and dry in the afternoon hours. There are only two buses to Turkey
> Creek - 10am and 2pm. With the 2pm bus, you run the risk of hiking
> during afternoon thunderstorms and you won't arrive at camp much earlier
> than 5:00.
>
> --Clark's Fork to Black Mountain. This will without a doubt be your
> toughest day. One option for this hike is to hike up to Shaeffers Pass
> then head west to the top of Black Mountain then down to Black Mountain
> Camp. As has been noted, the trails in that area are difficult to
> follow - this is becuase very few crews hike over Black Mountain and as
> a result the trails are not well established. Your second option is to
> hike over Shaffers Pass down to North Fork Urraca Camp then head west
> along the creek to Black Mountain Camp. Be prepared to get your feet
> wet - you have approximately 53 stream crossings to deal with! Either
> way you go, get a very early start from Clark's Fork. If you are
> determined on doing the Tooth, leave your packs at Shaffers Pass (hang
> your bearbags!) and do the Tooth as a sidehike - give yourself 3 to 4
> hours roundtrip, making an already long day even longer.
>
> --When hiking from Black Mountain Camp to Buck Creek, you will stop at
> Phillip's Junction for food. Take advantage of some well-deserved
> showers (the ones at PJ are the nicest ones on the ranch in my
> opinion). Choose your campsite carefully at Buck Creek - there are a
> lot of cow pies in the meadow.
>
> --The hike from Fish Camp to Abreu is one of your longer hikes, but you
> should be ready for it. It is one of the most scenic hikes on the
> ranch, so enjoy it!
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -----
> Brian Gannon
> Philmont Ranger 1997-2000
> ASM, T-1113 - Fairfax, VA
> 718G 2002 - Trek 32
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:46:01 -0800
> From: "Laura L. Lahey" <triplelll2@attbi.com>
> Subject: Re:2002 Trek 5
>
>
> Hi To All;
> We are a Troop from Springfield, Oregon on our way to Philmont in August and
> we just got confirmation that we got Trek 5. Can anyone tell me anything
> about this trek? The good, the bad and the ugly would be wonderful! We are a
> troop that focuses on backpacking trips, we did a 50 miler in August(110
> degree canyon) of last year and other than the heat and major poison oak, we
> did fine.
>
> I am not finding any info regarding trek 5 so any help would be greatly
> appreciated!!!
>
> Thank you very much!!!
>
> YIS,
>
> Laura Lahey
> triplelll2@attbi.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> End of philmont Digest V01 #176
> *******************************
The now Eastern Arkansas Council (now merged with Quapaw Area Council) just
received notice that we have been assigned Trek 21 for our two crews
609-F1,F2. Can anyone on the list give a detailed description of this north
and central country itinerary? Thanks.
Andy Fulkerson
Contingent Advisor, 1996,1999,2002
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