Re: [Philmont]: Knives

>From: "Dr. Bob Klein" <drbob@troop111.org> >Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com >To: Multiple recipients of list philmont <philmont@troop47.com> >Subject: Re: [Philmont]:  Knives >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:25:47 -0400 > >Philosophically, these are valid points.  However, there is a time >and a place - and that is also a matter of training for your Scouts >and Advisors to understand.  From a practical viewpoint, there is >precious little need for a Crew to be carrying 3 - 6 "real" knives >on a Philmont trek, and a Leatherman or equivalent can be far more >useful in a lot of *more likely* scenarios (esp. pack and stove >repairs). > >I feel the need to re-emphasize a basic advisory point - avoid the >"Jeremiah Johnson Complex".  You do not need to be self-reliant - >your Crew does.  If everyone brings everything they need, you will >be carrying a staggering amount of needless gear for nothing more >than the exercise.  And need I add that it is almost always the >Advisors who are carrying most of the "just-in-case" stuff?  I >cannot tell you how many times I have seen Crews scattered over 2 - >4 miles of trail (in violation of both common sense and Philmont >policy), with the lead Scouts forging ahead with 30 - 35 pound packs >and the Advisors trailing far behind carrying 65 pound (or heavier) >packs - and looking like they're having loads of fun, too, let me >tell you.  Some vacation. > >Bottom line - treat Philmont like Philmont, and treat true >wilderness like true wilderness.  And remember that a Crew is not 12 >guys going solo who just happen to be walking in the same direction. >  There's no need to confuse the concepts, even while you are >promoting the illusion that they are one and the same. > >- Dr. Bob > > >Robert Haig wrote: >>On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 06:13:51AM -0500, Steve Mac wrote: >> >>>I also agree this a very controlled situation up to a point.  If >>>you were on the AT you would be totally dependant on your self & >>>crew.  I feel a knife is something that should be part of every >>>ones personal equipment. >> >> >>In one of his stories Robert Heinlein advises that one should never >>go anywhere >>without being appropriately armed, at least with a knife.  In >>another the >>protagonist wisely chooses a couple of knives over guns and high >>powered weaponry with some very good reasons behind it.  The first >>story is one from >>"Time Enough for Love", I wouldn't reccomend it for scouts (or >>anyone scout aged for that matter).  The second came from "Tunnel >>in the Sky" which I would >>reccomend highly to all my scouts (and do if they ask about the >>books I read). >> >> >>While being "appropriately armed" is not probably a discussion for >>this list, >>and carriage of a knife really isn't either, the comment about >>being totally >>dependant on ones self and crew brought those two stories to mind. >> >>No philmont isn't a "true backcountry experience" not many of us >>ever will >>have experienced that. But it's as close as some of these scouts >>will ever come, I for one am not going to ruin the illusion for >>them by telling them >>they don't need to be self reliant because they're never more than >>a couple of miles from help.  I will however ask them how often >>they think that 4" >>sheath knife will come in handy and why wouldn't the leatherman >>micra do the >>same job at 1/10th the weight. >> >>Completely off topic, all of Heinlein's "Juvinile series" are great >>reading >>for scouts or anyone in their early teens.  They make decent, if >>not quick >>reading for adults too.  I used to take them with me on business >>trips until >>I finished them.  If as many of my boys embraced reading as they do >>their >>gameboy, I'd hand out a few of my old Heinlein books, just to see >>what the response might be.  Anyone Venturing crew age and up might >>also enjoy "Starship Troopers" (run away from the movie), though it >>deals with more >>mature topics than the Juvinile series, it's still about a boy >>growing up to be a man (albeit during his military service). >> >> >>enough about one of my favorite authors.... >> >>personal opinion, one knife for every 2-4 people is probably a good >>number. >>I wouldn't carry less than three, I wouldn't carry all the same >>kind, and >>I'd avoid the heavy multi-tools. >> > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/ >Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp >------------------------------------------------------- >Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com >Send postings to:          philmont@troop47.com >List FAQ found at:         http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp >List Administrator:        philmont_owner@troop47.com >------------------------------------------------------- >As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow >Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy, >loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, >cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. >------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >