The Phil-list Apr_2007: [philmont] Advisors learning curve

From: Jim Moss <bsa.rec.law@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Apr 03 2007 - 22:16:13 CDT

The first part many of you have probably heard before........

1. Don't take the pumps out of the bottles. You save weight by caring
the pumps inside the bottles and you can leave the lids at home. You only
need lids for the bottles without pumps. Keeps the pumps in the fuel
bottles cuts down on fuel spills when you are taking lids off and putting
the pumps in and you do not have to let off the excess pressure when you are
done cooking. This is where most stove fires occur.

2. This also protects the pumps form wear and tear and breaking. No
better protection then inside the bottle.

3. Carry your stoves and fuel in a separate bag on the outside of your
pack. Every pack manufacture makes them and you can find one that will fit
your set up. You can find one that will fit every set up no matter what pack
your are carrying. That way you know where you stove is and any spill is
fairly contained outside of the bag. I have a heavy cordura bag that holds
the fuel bottle/pump and my stove on the outside of the pack. If I am
worried about protecting the stove I put it in a small OR padded box inside
the bag on the outside of my pack.

4. Only transport fuel bottles upright. Stoves really don't matter.

The second part.

I find your reasoning for using non-reusable fuel canisters to be weak and
best and short sighted. I find it to be very un-Scout like in its approach
to teaching future generations responsibility.

Of course a youth is going to leave the cap off or allow the fuel to leak
out. Of course that is going to happen. We are dealing with youth. You are
going to deny this youth the learning opportunity and the unit the
opportunity to be creative.

More importantly you are saying is that the earth and the future of those
youth is less important than your desire to have it easy at Philmont.
Yesterday five conservative, very right wing supreme court justices even
said the earth is in trouble and we need to watch global warming.

Recycling is good, but reusing is better. It takes minimal energy to refill
a fuel bottle. It takes energy that warms the earth to recycle a spent fuel
canister.

I seriously doubt, that anyone who is going to argue for fuel canisters is
going to recycle them anyway. You are going to pitch them at Philmont and
leave for Philmont to deal with.

I wish I had John's grace in responding, but as many of you know, there are
some things that send me to the roof and choosing to be lazy or cheap in
deference to cleaning up the earth is one of them. Choosing to teach
impressionable youth the wrong way, when they are looking at you for
guidance, to help them set the groundwork for the future by choosing the
easy way over the right way is not Scout like.

Jim Moss

-----Original Message-----
From: philmont@troop47.com [mailto:philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of
vowelldk1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:25 PM
To: philmont List Member
Subject: [philmont] Advisors learning curve

That's one view. Another is a careless scout (and I don't care how much you
train them; human beings make mistakes) who fails to tighten the cap on the
fuel canister. A ruined pack, soaked clothes, and an environmental problem.

I opt for the canisters. It IS possible to mail them home and recycle them
there. UPS ground can take propane/butane.

Denise Vowell
VC 574
04 & 08 (if the knees hold up)

-----Original Message-----
From: philmontjohn@yahoo.com
To: philmont@troop47.com
Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:05:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [philmont] Advisors learning curve

    Using a stove with disposable cannisters, even if they are recyclable,
at Philmont is just causing Philmont to have to deal with more of your
garbage.

Our world is not a disposable one. Responsible care is EVERYONES job.

  Yeah, yeah the Power Max stoves are convenient, but so is eating cold
food, so if convenience is what you want, why even carry a stove, just eat
the stuff right out of the package?

  You absolutely cannot beat a "gasoline" powered stove at Philmont whether
you choose a Coleman pocket stove a MSR, SVEA or other brands.

  Yes, it requires a little skill to run them and to refuel them but these
are skills your Scouts need in life so learn how to do it and then teach
your Scouts.

  Liquid "white gas" or more properly referred to today as naphtha, it
avalilabe universally, not just at Philmont. You can even buy it at WalMart
for Pets's sake!

  Like previously posted it's really easy to calculate how much fuel you
need and when you need to restock on the trail.

  And there is absolutely nothing to leave behind for Philmont to dispose
of. Philmont must dispose of all the garbage, even the used fuel cannisters
so do your part and don't take them in the first place.

  If you cannot operate a "gasoline" camp stove, you are a little low on the
Philmont advisors learning curve, so get busy and climb that mountain now.

John LeBlanc

--------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile.
Get started.

________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
=0

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
To Unsubscribe send text email to:

     To: listserv@troop47.com
     Subject: unsubscribe
     Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------

As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

     To: listserv@troop47.com
     Subject: unsubscribe
     Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------

Received on Tue Apr 3 22:23:23 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Jul 24 2008 - 05:55:05 CDT