The Phil-list Aug_2003: RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a questi

From: Bailey, Jerry D <Bailey.Jerry@med.va.gov>
Date: Mon Aug 18 2003 - 13:26:53 CDT

Remember is always for the good of the boys. We are here the boys! YiS;
Jerry Bailey, ACM P722

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Stout [mailto:larry@cms-stl.com]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Need help with a question

An interesting problem.. One problem that I see is the fact that this
incident
is being handled by the adults, and not by the scouts themselves. Our troop
has
had a long standing policy of allowing a special Patrol Leaders Disciplinary
Council handle these sorts of things. The council consists of the SPL and
all
PL's with an adult observer ( but without a vote). Our troop Policy Manual
spells out allowable punishments of various infractions, but the scouts tend
to
be more inventive, and manage to get the point across.

The SM sounds like he needs to relax a little. Granted, the boys involved
need
to be shown that there are consequence to their actions, but the comments
(threats) of the SM are out of line. The Troop Committee is going to have to
step up and assert some authority before this tears the entire troop apart.
The
SM DOES NOT "own" the troop and should set a better example. If the SM
remains
adamant, I would discuss this with the Unit Commissioner, regardless of
his/her
relationship with the SM. If you do not get satisfaction, go to the ADC and
on
up the line. Follow the chain of command. If the majority of the Committee
feels
that the SM is unreasonable, you have an obligation to find a solution that
will
satisfy all parties.

All is opinion of course. There is a lot of scouting experience on this
board.
I'm sure you'll get some great ideas.

Larry Stout
St. Charles, MO.
..used to be an Owl

jpsampson1@mmm.com wrote:

> OK, a couple of you have said you'd be interested in helping, or at least
> reviewing my problem, and as I'm familiar with the wisdom on this board,
> I'll try to give you the Reader's Digest condensed version of what is
going
> on.
>
> At summer camp in July, five of our older scouts, (1 Eagle and 4 Life
Rank,
> ages 15-17) decided to get up in the middle of the night and wander around
> the campsite breaking sticks and making bear sounds. Practical jokes have
> NEVER been tolerated in our troop, so what possessed them to do this, we
> really don't know. Anyway, three leaders, one of which was me, heard them,
> thinking it was a bear. We talked amongst ourselves, but waited it out in
> our tents. This lasted about 45 minutes, then all was quiet. No one else
> woke up. The next morning we told the SM about it, and at formation, he
> reminded the scouts about following proper bear policy to avoid visits by
> bears in our campsite. NOTE: There was an incident of a scout being
> attacked by a bear at our camp (not our site though) many years ago, and
> although we haven't had any attacks in several years, bears do visit our
> camp. Anyway, after the SM finished his talk, our Committee Chair heard
one
> of the boys make a 'bear sound' and when they exchanged glances, the scout
> smiled. The CC knew immediately who the 'bear' was. Nothing was said at
the
> moment, but we then told the SM that there wasn't a real bear, and tried
to
> think of a practical, appropriate consequence for the boys. All are good,
> active, scouts, and have never been in trouble in or out of scouting. In
> fact, they include the current ASPL, the former SPL, the Troop Guide, the
> Chaplain's Aid, and Librarian. All have parents actively involved in the
> troop. Anyway, all five 'fessed up during a discussion with the SM, and
> once realized what COULD have happened (scaring the younger scouts,
> although if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded, and didn't)
> they agreed it was a stupid thing to do and felt bad about it. The adults
> decided the consequence would be for a camp counselor to spend an
afternoon
> with them to talk about bear behavior, bear policy etc. This would #1
> educate them, and #2 'deprive' them of some free time doing something they
> would probably rather be doing during a summer day at camp! Due to an
> emergency not directly related to this issue, the focus was elsewhere and
> the scouts never got their bear education. They all left camp at the end
of
> the week thinking this incident was over, as did the adults. It was not
> discussed with the rest of the troop.
>
> In a conversation among leaders a month later, the SM commented that NONE
> of the boys involved in the 'bear' incident would EVER be allowed to have
> leadership in HIS troop. Even if it meant preventing them from getting
> their Eagle, a Palm, or even if they all quit. He didn't care. Some of
> these scouts go all the way back to Tiger Cubs with this SM, and the
others
> have a long history under his leadership. Only the three leaders who heard
> his comments are aware he is planning to hold this against the boys in
this
> manner and we're not sure how to handle this. The SM is the only one who
> has had any contact with our Charter Rep, and he has years of history with
> our unit commissioner -- going that route will not be effective. Our CC is
> a great guy but is stumped, too.
>
> So, now that it's well after camp, where do we go from here? Both with
> consequences for the boys, AND how do we handle the SM? Does anyone have
> any suggestions? Thanks very much!
>
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> -------------------------------------------------------
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>

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
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Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
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List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

Received on Mon Aug 18 13:27:58 2003

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RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a question