The Phil-list Aug_2003: RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a questi

From: Bailey, Jerry D <Bailey.Jerry@med.va.gov>
Date: Mon Aug 18 2003 - 13:39:22 CDT

It is not "his" troop! It is the boys led troop and whatever is best for the
boys is best for the troop. The Charter Organization owns the troop. The
C.O.R. is the liaison between the troop and the C.O. The boys decide, and
let it go! At Philmont they showed the movie "Follow me boys" and that the
showed the value of boy led decision making. Leave it up to the boys to
discipline. The boys "OWN" the program, and should manage it for good or
bad, better or worse, let the boys decide, lead and get over it. I am sorry
if I offend anybody with my opinion, but this is the way I feel. Remember it
is just my own personal thoughts, and my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening
and allowing me to vent! Yours in Scouting: Jerry D. Bailey, "future" Adult
Boy Scout Leader?

-----Original Message-----
From: jpsampson1@mmm.com [mailto:jpsampson1@mmm.com]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:12 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Need help with a question

OK, a couple of you have said you'd be interested in helping, or at least
reviewing my problem, and as I'm familiar with the wisdom on this board,
I'll try to give you the Reader's Digest condensed version of what is going
on.

At summer camp in July, five of our older scouts, (1 Eagle and 4 Life Rank,
ages 15-17) decided to get up in the middle of the night and wander around
the campsite breaking sticks and making bear sounds. Practical jokes have
NEVER been tolerated in our troop, so what possessed them to do this, we
really don't know. Anyway, three leaders, one of which was me, heard them,
thinking it was a bear. We talked amongst ourselves, but waited it out in
our tents. This lasted about 45 minutes, then all was quiet. No one else
woke up. The next morning we told the SM about it, and at formation, he
reminded the scouts about following proper bear policy to avoid visits by
bears in our campsite. NOTE: There was an incident of a scout being
attacked by a bear at our camp (not our site though) many years ago, and
although we haven't had any attacks in several years, bears do visit our
camp. Anyway, after the SM finished his talk, our Committee Chair heard one
of the boys make a 'bear sound' and when they exchanged glances, the scout
smiled. The CC knew immediately who the 'bear' was. Nothing was said at the
moment, but we then told the SM that there wasn't a real bear, and tried to
think of a practical, appropriate consequence for the boys. All are good,
active, scouts, and have never been in trouble in or out of scouting. In
fact, they include the current ASPL, the former SPL, the Troop Guide, the
Chaplain's Aid, and Librarian. All have parents actively involved in the
troop. Anyway, all five 'fessed up during a discussion with the SM, and
once realized what COULD have happened (scaring the younger scouts,
although if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded, and didn't)
they agreed it was a stupid thing to do and felt bad about it. The adults
decided the consequence would be for a camp counselor to spend an afternoon
with them to talk about bear behavior, bear policy etc. This would #1
educate them, and #2 'deprive' them of some free time doing something they
would probably rather be doing during a summer day at camp! Due to an
emergency not directly related to this issue, the focus was elsewhere and
the scouts never got their bear education. They all left camp at the end of
the week thinking this incident was over, as did the adults. It was not
discussed with the rest of the troop.

In a conversation among leaders a month later, the SM commented that NONE
of the boys involved in the 'bear' incident would EVER be allowed to have
leadership in HIS troop. Even if it meant preventing them from getting
their Eagle, a Palm, or even if they all quit. He didn't care. Some of
these scouts go all the way back to Tiger Cubs with this SM, and the others
have a long history under his leadership. Only the three leaders who heard
his comments are aware he is planning to hold this against the boys in this
manner and we're not sure how to handle this. The SM is the only one who
has had any contact with our Charter Rep, and he has years of history with
our unit commissioner -- going that route will not be effective. Our CC is
a great guy but is stumped, too.

So, now that it's well after camp, where do we go from here? Both with
consequences for the boys, AND how do we handle the SM? Does anyone have
any suggestions? Thanks very much!

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Received on Mon Aug 18 13:41:49 2003

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RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a question