The Phil-list Aug_2003: RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a questi

From: Bailey, Jerry D <Bailey.Jerry@med.va.gov>
Date: Mon Aug 18 2003 - 18:30:13 CDT

May I ask for help also? Just a quick personal question? At Family Camp this
weekend the big event was water rockets launching with an air compressor
(big deal for the kids). They made water rockets in the morning, and shot in
the afternoon. They had plenty of other activities to do in the afternoon
beside water rocket bottle launching. My son gave up the other fun things to
do so he could go shoot water bottle rockets more. He got in line and shot
once, and then was in line again patiently waiting his turn - and kept
getting pushed back so for the two hours he gave going to other events
(hoping to shoot many times) he only got to shoot once. I was told when I
saw 10 or 12 other kids from one pack (pack 40 out of Valencia) pushing him
back - I asked why? I was told by one of the guys running the event (he had
a Pack 40 shirt also) that kids had not shot once, got to go ahead of
everybody that shot once. Why didn't give other events, if they wanted to
shoot, instead of cutting in line - ahead of people that had gotten their
early and been waiting quite a while. My son gave up going to other fun
events that he could have enjoyed, so he could get in line to shoot as many
times as he could in the two hour window to shoot water bottle rockets. But
because of the other kids cutting in line (after they went to other fun
things first - the one my son missed out on because he wanted to shoot the
rockets as many times as he could within the allotted time frame for this
event (one of many events that he turned down everything to do this) I
personally felt that this policy was wrong and that first come should be
first served - with not cutting in line. He sacrifice other fun activities
so he could do this more but he was penalized by other kids (all pack 40)
pushing ahead of him in line after they attended the same events that he
could if he had not wanted to do rocket launching more. My question to this
very knowledge, fair, honest list is: Is this right or wrong? Should there
have been cutting in line allowed, or should it have been first come, first
serve, wait in to shoot, first time or tenth time. This was the most
important event my Webelos II wanted to do. Was I wrong in feeling hurt
because he was hurt and pushed aside and not allowed to the right and fair
thing - wait in line - wait your turn as it came up - not be pushed aside by
anybody who did not want make the same sacrifices as you and give up other
events for this one? It too late to smooth over his hurt feelings this year
but there will be future Family Camping Events. If the event manager, I want
to address the issue to save future problems. If I am wrong then I bite the
bullet and explain to my son the great scouting wizards of the list that I
was wrong and let it go. I ask this list special because I know you all have
the most knowledge and experience of all the scouting and could give me your
own personal opinions better. Sorry, for length but I was/am upset because
he kept getting pushed to the end of the line after waiting so long, and
patiently (he handled better than I did) I just humbly ask "What is your
opinion?" Thanks a million in advance for your greatly appreciated time and
assistance. Yours in Scouting: Jerry D. Bailey, Assistant Cubmaster Pack
722, Los Angeles, CA (@ Philmont PTC July 2003, hope to go again soon)

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Bradley [mailto:tbradley60@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 3:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Need help with a question

If he thinks that it is HIS troop, I would ask for HIS resignation. The SM
works for the committee and the sponsoring organization. Suitable
consequences for improper behavior are required. This in NOT the correct
solution.

Tom Bradley
Committee Chair - T161
C-20-95 - I use to be a FOX!
----- Original Message -----
From: <jpsampson1@mmm.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list philmont" <philmont@troop47.com>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 12:11
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Need help with a question

>
> OK, a couple of you have said you'd be interested in helping, or at least
> reviewing my problem, and as I'm familiar with the wisdom on this board,
> I'll try to give you the Reader's Digest condensed version of what is
going
> on.
>
> At summer camp in July, five of our older scouts, (1 Eagle and 4 Life
Rank,
> ages 15-17) decided to get up in the middle of the night and wander around
> the campsite breaking sticks and making bear sounds. Practical jokes have
> NEVER been tolerated in our troop, so what possessed them to do this, we
> really don't know. Anyway, three leaders, one of which was me, heard them,
> thinking it was a bear. We talked amongst ourselves, but waited it out in
> our tents. This lasted about 45 minutes, then all was quiet. No one else
> woke up. The next morning we told the SM about it, and at formation, he
> reminded the scouts about following proper bear policy to avoid visits by
> bears in our campsite. NOTE: There was an incident of a scout being
> attacked by a bear at our camp (not our site though) many years ago, and
> although we haven't had any attacks in several years, bears do visit our
> camp. Anyway, after the SM finished his talk, our Committee Chair heard
one
> of the boys make a 'bear sound' and when they exchanged glances, the scout
> smiled. The CC knew immediately who the 'bear' was. Nothing was said at
the
> moment, but we then told the SM that there wasn't a real bear, and tried
to
> think of a practical, appropriate consequence for the boys. All are good,
> active, scouts, and have never been in trouble in or out of scouting. In
> fact, they include the current ASPL, the former SPL, the Troop Guide, the
> Chaplain's Aid, and Librarian. All have parents actively involved in the
> troop. Anyway, all five 'fessed up during a discussion with the SM, and
> once realized what COULD have happened (scaring the younger scouts,
> although if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded, and didn't)
> they agreed it was a stupid thing to do and felt bad about it. The adults
> decided the consequence would be for a camp counselor to spend an
afternoon
> with them to talk about bear behavior, bear policy etc. This would #1
> educate them, and #2 'deprive' them of some free time doing something they
> would probably rather be doing during a summer day at camp! Due to an
> emergency not directly related to this issue, the focus was elsewhere and
> the scouts never got their bear education. They all left camp at the end
of
> the week thinking this incident was over, as did the adults. It was not
> discussed with the rest of the troop.
>
> In a conversation among leaders a month later, the SM commented that NONE
> of the boys involved in the 'bear' incident would EVER be allowed to have
> leadership in HIS troop. Even if it meant preventing them from getting
> their Eagle, a Palm, or even if they all quit. He didn't care. Some of
> these scouts go all the way back to Tiger Cubs with this SM, and the
others
> have a long history under his leadership. Only the three leaders who heard
> his comments are aware he is planning to hold this against the boys in
this
> manner and we're not sure how to handle this. The SM is the only one who
> has had any contact with our Charter Rep, and he has years of history with
> our unit commissioner -- going that route will not be effective. Our CC is
> a great guy but is stumped, too.
>
> So, now that it's well after camp, where do we go from here? Both with
> consequences for the boys, AND how do we handle the SM? Does anyone have
> any suggestions? Thanks very much!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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>
>
>
>
>

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Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
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Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
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List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

Received on Mon Aug 18 18:32:39 2003

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RE: [Philmont]: Need help with a question