RE: [Philmont] - philmont Digest - V01 #1094

I'm not willing to touch the discussion regarding Disneyland with a ten-foot
pole. However, on the topic of turkey bags, I will throw in my $0.02...

Buy "cooking" in the turkey bags, we end up with a built-in yum yum bag that
does not require extra work. We almost eliminate the need to use the
scouring pad provided by Philmont and reduce, at least by half, the amount
of soap required to clean those pots. In addition, the water used to clean
the pots is eliminated, even though the dishes still have to be washed. If
the crews clean those dishes within a decent timeframe, the scouring pad can
be completely eliminated. So, do you 1: use scouring pads, extra soap to
clean pots, yum yum bags provided (ziplok's actually), and sump large
amounts of soapy water, burning a lot of extra time or do you 2: use the
turkey bag(s) from the pots as yum yum bags, clean eating dishes with a
little soapy water, fingers, and a rinse, and go about your business,
gaining some extra time to do Thorns & Roses, the Eagle Soaring High
Devotionals, or whatever else that little luxury just provided? If you are
worried about the turkey bag landfill issue still, just be sure to save the
yum yum bags issued and return them to provisioning. You've now done less
damage to the landfill than you would have with those ziploks, considering
the mass, volume, and compressibility of the two different types of bags.

Joe T.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Dave Parmly
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont] - philmont Digest - V01 #1094

2 observations on the most recent posts.

RE:Alaska - I can't think of a place I'd like to go more than to
Denali/Alaska. Everything Alex described would be a dream come true for me.
I tell my wife I want to go somewhere that I have to take a .357 along when
I go to take a dump at night. HOWEVER, my opinion is that a place like that
is NOT appropriate for taking a BSA group without a lot of very stringent
conditions. The risks are approaching the level of recklessness unless the
crew is all significantly older. Maybe one scout with one Scouter as a
ratio, but I just don't think BSA High Adventure is intended to be the
ultimate wild "you could die any day now" experience. Northern Tier, from
what I understand, provides a much more wilderness experience then Philmont,
but I don't hear of the dangers of grizzly bears, etc., that would be a
concern in Denali.

Alex, because you were a Philmont ranger (with a lower case r)I can tell
that you loved your time at Philmont, but I have to say that when you throw
out terms like "Disneyland" when comparing outdoor experiences, it's kind of
insulting to the many thousands of people who made a trek at Philmont. I
know you didn't mean it that way but look at it from the perspective of a 14
to 15 year old who looks up to Philmont rangers.
Terms like that are usually used by people who have mastered the type of
challenge offered at Philmont and have moved on to other, tougher, more
age/experience-appropriate adventures, and good for them.

But I can't imagine a pro football player coming out to my son's 10-year old
team practice and demeaning their efforts simply because they are not at his
level. Actually, relative to each others size, a 10-year old hits another
10-year old as hard as adults hit adults in football. The adults have moved
up to another level. Hopefully, they would encourage the kids to stay with
the program, not tell them that they are just little twerps in football
"Disneyland". HH isn't Philmont either, and isn't meant to be.
Through-hiking the AT isn't Philmont; isn't meant to be. Have I mastered
challenges in the out-of-doors that make Philmont seem easy? Sure. But
what would the effect be if I told my just-back Phil-vets that they really
didn't do anything special?

Accomplishments are all relative. My 15-year old son just hiked all 11 days
and 70-odd miles on a toe he broke the night before leaving for Philmont.
He chose to follow through on all he had worked for. It was his choice, not
mine. You come tell him he really went through "Disneyland". You might
just have an argument on your hands...with both of us! :^}

And Alex, the Army developed this cool high adventure program if you want a
challenge. It's called Ranger School. That's Ranger with an upper case
"R". 90+ pound rucksacks, almost all operations done at night, completely
student-led, no hip belts allowed, one meal a day while patrolling, carrying
a 10 to 25 pound weapon, in the Appalachian Mountains and Florida swamps,
2-3 hours sleep a night for 58 days straight...kind of makes the Alaska
Council's Denali base seem like...Disneyland. ;^/

RE the alternative cooking technique.

Bob LeBlanc, a frequent contributor to Selden Ball's website, rips people
who use turkey bags as adding to the landfills/being wussies for not
cleaning pots. I think he needs to lighten up, but he has a point about
adding to trash by using additional turkey bags. By using the same bags the
Phil-food comes in, our crews method does not create a need for any
additional items and therefore, we contribute nothing more to the landfills.

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:28:50 EDT
From: EA1981GLE@aol.com
Subject: Alaska as an Alternative to Philmont

-------------------------------1093195729
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

While there is no one that loves Philmont more than me, the Western Alaska
Council offers customized adventure treks that can include backpacking,

canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, ice climbing, fishing, whitewater,
glacier hiking, etc. Guide accompany you the entire trek.
 
They have been doing this for the last 3-4 years and are in the process of
putting together a link to the council website.
 
In addition, the Western Alaska Council will be developing a High Adventure
base that will probably begin initial operation in 2007-08. They have
acquired 2,000 acres adjacent to Denali State park which is adjacent to
Denali National Park.
 
Gotta say that this is a true wilderness experience that, (and it pains me
to say this,) makes Philmont look like a backpacking version of Disneyland.
 
As soon as they have the site up, I'll post it to the list.
 
If you are interested in more information for 2005 expeditions, (they do

fill up quickly with a minimal amount of advertising) email me and I'll be
glad to put you in touch with the Camp Director
 
Alex in Alaska
Philmont Ranger 1986
Training Ranger 1987

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:30:34 -0500
From: "Joe Tavares" <j.tavares@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [Philmont] - philmont Digest - V01 #1089

Rehydration is the way we went this year at Philmont, as well. However, we
did use turkey bags and "cooked" all the food together in the 1-pot style
our ranger described to us (at least until the chili mac and mashed
potatoes). My recommendation from that point on changed and I would
suggest, in the instances where you receive mashed potatoes, cook them
separately.

Basically our style of cooking required boiling water in one pot, line the
other pot with a turkey bag and put the dry food in it, then pour enough
boiling water into the turkey bag to rehydrate. Twist the top closed and
place a lid on the pot. 8-10 minutes later, all was edible. If you make
the mashed potatoes separately (my recommendation), pull the mail course
turkey bag out of the pot, add new turkey bag and the mashed potatoes, then
water to rehydrate them. The original pot is now empty and you can drop the
main course back down into it to keep it safe from accident.

There are probably a hundred different ways to cook at Philmont, and 1-pot
cooking is great for everything except mashed potatoes. But the key, I
think, is to get to Clark's Fork on the night they serve brownies during
Advisor's Coffee!

Joe
808-L3 Itinerary 24

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe at
http://usscouts.org/lists/ Listserv Commands at
http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow Scouts and Scouters,
do your best to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind,
obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

 
Received on Tue Aug 24 00:50:23 2004