RE: [Philmont]: Filling spots

Well, the primary difference in "what is" vs. what I thought it was, is I
have chosen not to consider an <21 as an adult or advisor. Maintaining >21
advisors at least to 2 provides 2 deep no matter who is counting. Also,
since they count towards the youth count, why not consider them youths?
The main thing you have to keep straight is who tents with whom. If you
consider the 18 year old as an advisor, for the limited time that you can,
that person also has to have Youth Protection passed, too. Now, when I have
had an 18 yr old on my crew, I have required they have Youth Protection
anyway.

I can see a scenario where, in a 2 advisor situation, if the >21 year old
gets injured and has to come off the trail, they might make the crew come
off. How many rangers are >21 that could replace the older advisor. This
sort of situation could jeopardize the entire trek.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Alan and/or Brenda Thomson
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:51 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Filling spots

Joe Tavares writes ...

Um,

I believe Philmont requires adult advisors to be 21. At 18, he is still
considered a "youth." He's actually a "special case youth" in that he is not
allowed to tent with either adults or under-18 youths.

Comment ...

Oh, were it so simple!

This is another topic the List routinely goes around on, and it affects a
number of things - particularly the adult leadership requirement, tenting,
and showers. In a nutshell, the issue is that while Philmont's requirements
parallel Boy Scout requirements, Venturing crews need to meet both
Philmont's and Venturing's requirements.

Dealing just with the leadership aspect (I hope I kept this straight, and
I'm sure I'll hear about it if I did not) ...

For a Boy Scout unit at Philmont, an 18 year old is considered an adult for
all purposes. Boy Scouts requires two deep adult leadership, at least one
of whom must be over 21. Philmont also requires both that a crew be
majority under 21, and that there are no more than 4 adults over 21. Both
advisors do NOT have to be over 21.

Venturing Crews also require two deep adult leadership, and both must be
over 21. But that requirement is from the program, not Philmont.

It is easy to come up with hypothetical (and certainly not realistic) crew
makeups that make no sense - for instance, a Boy Scout crew with one over
21, another one over 18, and the rest eighth graders is okay, while a
Venturing crew with one over 21 and everyone else 20 is not.

- Al Thomson, Troop 236, Schooley's Mountain NJ Treks 1999, 2001, and 2003
Autumn Adventures 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006

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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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