[Philmont] I rest my case Keith!!!!!

We have all had problems with both types. This is a old school vs new school. We all must do what is best for each of us at the time. My son & I started with a Kelty Super Tioga's in 02. When we returned from that trip, I told him we were going to rethink all of the gear. Lighter and less. I found the Kelty 50th anniversary pack and that is what we still have today. With what we took off of the packs they weigh now 4 lbs 4 ozs. I have even thought about cutting the loops on the top and sides to reduce the weight even more. I have had both types on every hike I have been on since spring of 2000. I have worked on it seems all of them getting them to fit the person, some that day. I had one Scout in 05 that his pack fit him at base camp, and on each day after that and when we picked up food after that he was in the back with me. He has lost enough weight that his hip belt was as tight as it would go and it still was loose. We were making saddle blankets to go around him to take up the girth he had lost. He and my son has never regained the weight they lost from those trips. They are tall and very slim now. Of my 5 trips and total of 7 crews, I have replaced 1 pin & ring in a external frame and just made countless adjustments to the externals & internal frames.
  
Like John said, what they manufactures push or market to us is what we buy. When you go to the pack section at REI, there will be only a few externals and the rest will be internals. When they don't make as many there is not as many. When they make plenty of them, there are plenty of them.
 
If we all agreed on the same thing there would only be one type of everything. The last time I went to the store, I was amazed by the variations of the same thing of every item! As you can tell I do very little shopping.
As John told me once, "we need to agree that we disagree" and that is just how it was and is. Turned out John was right, I had though I had water in our fuel bottles and it was just the simple thing of putting to much pressure on the bottles at altitude. So do what is best for your back and feet and we will all go down this path together, together.
How about we talk about something else for a while to let this rest?
Just how a redneck from TN feels about this, "that's all I have to say about that".
Your pack may & will vary,
Steve Mac Intyre
615.804.0975
A.S.M. Troop 777 & 342
Hermitage, TN
Philmont Advisor 02-32NFM2, 03-23, 05-32, 06-32, 07-33

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Larry Taylor
  To: Philmont List Member
  Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 08:12
  Subject: [Philmont] I rest my case Keith!!!!!

  This summer the Alps mountaineering Cascade model's belt was too big for my son and neither of the 2 training treks revealed that fact (guess we did not give him enough weight before Philmont).
  When our Ranger (Buddy Davis --- great Ranger !!!!!) left I asked him to radio into Logistics and ask them to send a small belted rental pack to Dan Beard ( we were having an injured member joining us there). Logistics sent out a Kelty external frame with a smallbelt which was quite a deal better until the last day when we (the Scout or the adult leaders 'helping' him ) were able to break the bottom of the frame.

  Both External and internal frames have merits and this discussion is taking on one of those near religious jihad to the death tones --- Cut it out !!!!!

  A Scout (and Scout) is courteous!!!!!

  YiS
  Sam Taylor ASM T89, Austin, TX
  701-H1 "I once was a bear ......"

>>> On 17-Aug-07 at 7:56 AM, in message <MDAEMON-F200708170757.AA5716183pd50004056533@troop47.com>, "Keith Hooks" <keithhooks@msn.com> wrote:

> I've never seen an external frame pack that the frame popped out.
>Have any of you?

  Don't want to get into a ****ing contest with anyone, but I've seen problems
  on both externals and internals. In 2005 we had to rent a Philmont pack
  when a crew member's external pack failed in base camp. Get whatever works
  for you and makes you happy.

  Keith
  ASM, T-252
  Kilgore, TX

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Received on Fri Aug 17 09:03:58 2007