From: Johnlebl@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 01 2002 - 20:54:28 CST
HikinGrammy@iGlide.net writes:
> Upon many an occasion at Philmont it has been a challenge to find enough
> level ground to set up tents for a full crew when we were all 2 per
> tent. I can't imagine trying add more tents to that mix. In some
> places it probably means tents would be set up where they shouldn't be.
>
Full crew, two per tent is SIX tents.
Full crew, four per tent is THREE tents.
That is a BIG difference. Think about it. Think OUTSIDE the box.
I see that I opened a can of worms on the weight per person tent deal. Well,
great!
Not really a can of worms, but stimulated thinking. That is what you need to
do.
Probably my best atribute is to aggitate people into thinking for themselves.
I've been doing this for years. I enjoy it and it's good for others. It is
a good learning tool and I use it freely on this list.
Sometimes it gets under people's skin, but I don't intend to do that for it's
own sake.
TENTS
Keep on thinking TENTS. It's your one biggest package and next to a full
load of food and water, it's your heaviest item at Philmont. Don't take it
lightly.
On our trek last summer there were three male advisors, one female advisor,
four female youth and four male youth. A tenting nightmare using Scout
rules.
Enter Timberline 4 person tents.
I offered four person Timberline tents to both the male and female youth to
use as I own two of them. The girls jumped on the idea because of the3 extra
room in them
The boys, being boys (minature men - it's a man thing ladies!) wanted to use
two person PhilTents simply because they used them before and they worked.
Well, after the first rainy night I heard "I wish we had one of those kinds
of tents" quite a few times.
We used a two person Eureka Timberline for two male advisors and the
male/female advisor husband and wife slept in their personal Kelty tent. I
don't remember which model. What I do remember is they could not get into or
out of it when it was raining without getting water in it. It was a dome
tent. I rest my case on dome tents.
With Timberlines that is NOT a problem.
If I were taking a crew of all male Scouts including three or four male
advisors, I'd look strongly at taking three - four person Timberlines. One
for the adults and two for the eight or nine Scouts.
Many campsites could be used by this full size crew in three tents that
otherwise go wanting for occupation by smaller crews.
It's not the size of the tents that is a problem in small campsites but the
total number of tents in the crew.
The other issue is Philmont discourages the use of solo size tents. Philmont
prohibits all bivy sacks. If you have an od number of crew members, one
person in a two person tent is allowed. I suggest three people in a four
person tent as an alternative. It is less pounds per person and more room.
Both these are bear safety issues.
I for one understand the idea completely of bear safety and sleeping one to a
tent. Not a good idea.
I highly suggest that you get up to speed on TOTAL bear safety.
Let me just state it rather bluntly.
When (not if, because it has already happened at Philmont and will PROBABLY
happen again) a bear decides to grasp one of your Scouts in it jaws in the
middle of the night, that Scout stands a lot better chance of living to tell
about it if he/she is sharing a tent with another Scout than if sleeping
alone. That is a simple proven fact people! History!
Why would anyone want to push a Scout in their crew closer to the edge of the
envelope of bear safety by allowing them to sleep alone in a tent simply
"because they like to sleep alone in a tent".
To me that would be just about the dumbest thing an advisor could do.
Think OUTSIDE the box people, not outside the universe. Catering to the
silly whims of kids is not thinking at all.
Safety issues are the advisors responsibility. Accept that challenge and do
them. Do them well.
For a great treatese on Bear Safety, see Dr. Bob Kleins Bear Safety A
Conversational Guide for Scouts, http://www.troop111.org/bear.html.
It along with much more on bear safety is found on Selden's list.
Dr. Bobs "conversation" contains a lot more than just PhilBear safety issues.
Bear problems at Philmont are real. Don't play games with them, because
bears don't play games.
Simply stated it reads something like this.
DON'T ALLOW YOUTH TO TENT ALONE IN BEAR COUNTRY! Adults shouldn't either.
John LeBlanc
Eagle Class of 1959
Phirst Phil Ptrek 1959
PhilTrek 2002 630H2 Trek 16
My latest adventure was yesterday,
Today is not over yet!
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