From: Tuck, Robert K. (RKTUCK@southernco.com)
Date: Mon Dec 02 2002 - 14:05:53 CST
I used the Zeus on my troop's trek in June 2002. I liked the tent.
But, being a single wall tent, there was a lot of condensation, I
expected that. But, my tent experienced leakage through the seams. The
outside loops, where the clips attach to the poles, allowed water to
weep into the seam. The water them flowed several inches through the
inside of the seam and seeded out through the inside loft hanger loops.
I had used the tent in rain before going to Philmont, but not in a
prolonged setting (all night). One of the scouts had also used the Zeus
and he experienced the same problem. I used corners from a zip-loc bag
to catch the water.
Eureka has not responded to my requests to fix the tent. Usually, they
are VERY good about these things.
We had one female advisor in our group. She put her tent right in among
the other tents. There were no problems. But, please see Coop's guide
on female issues. He has a lot of good info.
Robert Tuck
ASM Troop 550
Warner Robins, GA
2002 620J1 & J2
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diane Mikulis [SMTP:DBMikulis@comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:12 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Tents and Bears
>
> Thank you all for your thoughts on tents. Many members of our 2 crews
> have gone out and purchased 2-man Eureka Zeus tents (3 lb. 14 oz.)
> specifically for Philmont and training treks. We understood from the
> Philmont equipment list that that's what was needed. Didn't realize we
> could go larger. And now that everyone's spent the money, they
> probably won't want to, despite the fact that the troop owns 5 or 6
> 4-man Timberlines.
>
> Since I am the only female going and not married to any of the men,
> any suggestions on additional precautions to take while tenting alone
> in bear country? I plan to pitch my tent very close to the men.
>
> Diane Mikulis
> Troop 757, Glenwood, MD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
> Behalf Of Johnlebl@aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:54 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> Subject: [Philmont]: Tents and Bears
>
>
> HikinGrammy@iGlide.net writes:
>
>
>
>
> Upon many an occasion at Philmont it has been a challenge to find
> enough
> level ground to set up tents for a full crew when we were all 2 per
> tent. I can't imagine trying add more tents to that mix. In some
> places it probably means tents would be set up where they shouldn't
> be.
>
>
>
> Full crew, two per tent is SIX tents.
>
> Full crew, four per tent is THREE tents.
>
> That is a BIG difference. Think about it. Think OUTSIDE the box.
>
>
> I see that I opened a can of worms on the weight per person tent deal.
> Well, great!
>
> Not really a can of worms, but stimulated thinking. That is what you
> need to do.
>
> Probably my best atribute is to aggitate people into thinking for
> themselves. I've been doing this for years. I enjoy it and it's good
> for others. It is a good learning tool and I use it freely on this
> list.
>
> Sometimes it gets under people's skin, but I don't intend to do that
> for it's own sake.
>
> TENTS
>
> Keep on thinking TENTS. It's your one biggest package and next to a
> full load of food and water, it's your heaviest item at Philmont.
> Don't take it lightly.
>
> On our trek last summer there were three male advisors, one female
> advisor, four female youth and four male youth. A tenting nightmare
> using Scout rules.
>
> Enter Timberline 4 person tents.
>
> I offered four person Timberline tents to both the male and female
> youth to use as I own two of them. The girls jumped on the idea
> because of the3 extra room in them
>
> The boys, being boys (minature men - it's a man thing ladies!) wanted
> to use two person PhilTents simply because they used them before and
> they worked.
>
> Well, after the first rainy night I heard "I wish we had one of those
> kinds of tents" quite a few times.
>
> We used a two person Eureka Timberline for two male advisors and the
> male/female advisor husband and wife slept in their personal Kelty
> tent. I don't remember which model. What I do remember is they could
> not get into or out of it when it was raining without getting water in
> it. It was a dome tent. I rest my case on dome tents.
>
> With Timberlines that is NOT a problem.
>
> If I were taking a crew of all male Scouts including three or four
> male advisors, I'd look strongly at taking three - four person
> Timberlines. One for the adults and two for the eight or nine Scouts.
>
> Many campsites could be used by this full size crew in three tents
> that otherwise go wanting for occupation by smaller crews.
>
> It's not the size of the tents that is a problem in small campsites
> but the total number of tents in the crew.
>
> The other issue is Philmont discourages the use of solo size tents.
> Philmont prohibits all bivy sacks. If you have an od number of crew
> members, one person in a two person tent is allowed. I suggest three
> people in a four person tent as an alternative. It is less pounds per
> person and more room. Both these are bear safety issues.
>
> I for one understand the idea completely of bear safety and sleeping
> one to a tent. Not a good idea.
>
> I highly suggest that you get up to speed on TOTAL bear safety.
>
> Let me just state it rather bluntly.
>
> When (not if, because it has already happened at Philmont and will
> PROBABLY happen again) a bear decides to grasp one of your Scouts in
> it jaws in the middle of the night, that Scout stands a lot better
> chance of living to tell about it if he/she is sharing a tent with
> another Scout than if sleeping alone. That is a simple proven fact
> people! History!
>
> Why would anyone want to push a Scout in their crew closer to the edge
> of the envelope of bear safety by allowing them to sleep alone in a
> tent simply "because they like to sleep alone in a tent".
>
> To me that would be just about the dumbest thing an advisor could do.
>
> Think OUTSIDE the box people, not outside the universe. Catering to
> the silly whims of kids is not thinking at all.
>
> Safety issues are the advisors responsibility. Accept that challenge
> and do them. Do them well.
>
> For a great treatese on Bear Safety, see Dr. Bob Kleins Bear Safety A
> Conversational Guide for Scouts, http://www.troop111.org/bear.html.
>
> It along with much more on bear safety is found on Selden's list.
>
> Dr. Bobs "conversation" contains a lot more than just PhilBear safety
> issues.
>
> Bear problems at Philmont are real. Don't play games with them,
> because bears don't play games.
>
> Simply stated it reads something like this.
>
> DON'T ALLOW YOUTH TO TENT ALONE IN BEAR COUNTRY! Adults shouldn't
> either.
>
> John LeBlanc
> Eagle Class of 1959
> Phirst Phil Ptrek 1959
> PhilTrek 2002 630H2 Trek 16
> My latest adventure was yesterday,
> Today is not over yet!
>
>
>
>
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