Re: [Philmont]: Propane Stoves

OK, then, James, let's take a different tack.

Your original point was that butane/propane tanks are not recyclable.
That point is easily debunked.

Your new point is that reuse is more environmentally friendly than
recycling. Ignoring the point that it probably takes more energy to
manufacture a steel container in the first place let's look at the
feasibility of reuse of disposable propane tanks.

Language found on every disposable propane tank:

*Federal Law forbids transportation if refilled - penalty up to $500,000
fine and five years imprisonment (49 U.S.C. 5124)
*

If you go to Cabelas you'll find this language at their ad for the
disposable tank propane filler: *U.S. DOT prohibits the transportation
of re-filled disposable bottles.
*

(Note: If you refill the way the Cabelas picture shows you get gas, not
liquid and a relatively short burn time. To do it right you have to
invert the bulk tank and pull on the disposable's pressure relief valve
with needle nose pliers until liquid flows out. Not a real safe
practice. Have I done it? Yes. See the following for why I don't
anymore.)

You will find a number on the green disposables like the following
example:

*DOT-39 NRC 2228/286 M1003* (M1003 = registration number of the
manufacturer)

DOT-39 tanks are not heat treated like a DOT 4BA bulk tank.

As a result of the manufacturing process, the metal that disposable
tanks are made from is work-hardened and brittle. Heat treatment, as for
DOT 4BA tanks, softens the metal and restores it's elasticity. Without
elasticity, the metal won't "give" and distribute loads evenly, instead
concentrating pressures around flaws in the metal, dents, scratches,
welds, rust spots, or sharp bends. These high load concentrations
fatigue the metal greatly - and more important, unpredictably - making
reuse of a DOT 39 tank a gamble.

Further, the disposable cylinders do not have a safety margin to
withstand internal rust. The propane put in the cylinders at the
factory under ideal conditions is dry. The propane you buy for your
backyard barbecue grill is not. Fuel grade propane is moisture
saturated meaning that your disposable cylinder rusts from the inside,
out of sight. Will an occasional refilling be dangerous? Possibly not,
but "reuse last a long time, then recycle" is inviting a nasty surprise.

Are you willing to be a scout's life that refilling a disposable propane
tank is a safe thing to do.

Not me.

Gary Boyd
Georgetown, Texas

James H. Moss wrote:

>Reuse is better than recycle. Recycle takes energy and water. Reuse last a
>long time, then recycle. Night and day in my world. I recycled newspapers
>until I learned to read on line now I reuse.
>
>Jim Moss
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
>Behalf Of Gary Boyd
>Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:56 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
>Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Propane Stoves
>
>Disagree with both the following. This is from a Coleman news release:
>
>
>
>>Coleman Powermax fuel, which features an advanced blend of propane and
>>butane, was introduced to the backpacking and trekking market in 1997.
>>It has received rave reviews and awards from some of the toughest
>>critics after testing in a wide range of conditions. The cartridges
>>are self-sealing and can be detached and reattached without fuel loss.
>>Available in two sizes - 170 grams and 300 grams - Coleman Powermax
>>cartridges can be easily recycled, when empty, by consumers. A simple
>>church-key device known as a "Green KeyT" allows consumers to puncture
>>the empty cartridge and recycle it with other aluminum products.
>>
>>
>
>The powermax cartridges are fully recyclable. That is one reason we switched
>to these stoves.
>
>Gary Boyd
>Crew 151 CC/Troop 151 SA
>Georgetown, Texas
>
>
>Garrett, Russ wrote:
>
>
>
>>Jim's point about LNT and canisters is well taken. That is why I
>>switched to liquid fuel several years ago for most applications
>>
>>
>>
>Moss, Jim wrote:
>
>
>
>>On another note, all butane mixes are non-refillable and are not really
>>recyclable. As such, they do not meet LNT or recycle/reuse
>>environmental practices.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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Received on Wed Feb 15 00:32:39 2006