From: tom fitzpatrick (tk_fitz123@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Jan 22 2003 - 11:22:26 CST
Our troop found ourselves in a similar situation and ended scrambling at the
last minute to minimize the financial losses. I'm sure that others on the
list have encountered similar situations. One thing to remember is that 2
years is a long time to plan a trip.
When we hit the Philmont Phone Lottery for our August 2002 trek, we had 34
interested participants to be spread into two crews. Our initial view was
that the first ones in with a deposit to the troop would be on the list to
go. About 28 put their money down, that left 4 people on the waiting list.
We had returned our reservation request to Philmont with 20 participants
(out of a possible 24). Initial contact with a travel agents began, a
$1000.00 deposit was put down for air travel (again for 20). We went
through Adventure Trails for ground based transportation and accomodations -
used them before with great success(more on this later) and put down a
deposit with them as well.
Within a year, we found that we were down to 15 participants - Many of the
adults that dropped, found that they couldn't commit to something that far
in advance, a couple of parents got a little edgy after Sept 11, and others
dropped out of the troop. As the lead adult advisor, I contacted council,
exchanged e-mails with troops within the council and went outside of
council. As this was going on, I also hit up the scouts within the troop
again and contacted scouts that left the troop, in an effort to get
additional bodies. By the time summer 2002 was starting, I could only get
the number to 19.
In the late spring, early summer (about 90+ days out) all the big balances
to the travel agents were coming due - the agent handling the airfare made
adjustments and our commitment was changed to 19 seats - no loss in $. AT,
who was handling the ground-based events started to surface in publications
such as Time Magazine and many newspapers. The troop committee met and
decided to terminate out relationship with them - AT promptly refunded all $
that we had sent to them.
Travel arrangements were now being handle by "Tom's Travel" - Me! I ended
up taking a day off from work, and spent it working the telephone. We were
lucky enough to duplicate many of the same things that AT offered and even
got two different tourist options added to the mix - Our cost for
Ground-Based portion of the adventure ended up being $180.00/person less
than AT was quoting...
When Philmont says the $ sent to them is non-refundable they mean it - It's
also non-transferable. After reconciling with Philmont, we were out 1
deposit and one half payment for one trekker that was previously sent to
Philmont. We determined that the last person to drop out was responsible
for this cost.
If I had to do it again, I would book the minimum crew sizes at Philmont and
adjust 30 days before our trek starts. This is probably a logistics
nightmare for Philmont, but until they adjust their refund / transfer
policy, I would need to retain maximum flexibility on my end.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Diane Mikulis
Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: removal of a boy
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:20:28 -0500
How do you remove someone from a crew for whatever reason when they have
already paid the $444 non-refundable fee to Philmont and purchased a
non-refundable airline ticket and there is no one on a waiting list? Our
troop can't afford to absorb that kind of money.
Diane Mikulis
dbmikulis@comcast.net
Troop 757, Glenwood, MD
PS I think I turned the HTML off, but I apologize to those who can't
read it if that didn't work.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
Behalf Of JWFLAIG@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Boys Who Aren't Interested
Lots of good discussion. Coop's and Wally's Advisors' Guide addresses
this
issue; it is worth rereading. Remember that for safety (lightning
avoidance,
hypothermia, for example) the crew must be able to move at a reasonable
speed.
To me the key is that advisors need to know the capabilities and
attitudes of
all of the crew members, both youth and adult. I may be that a marginal
youth can be helped along to the benefit of all involved. On the other
hand,
if he/she is notably less capable than the rest of the crew you are
likely
setting up a situation where all involved have a bad trip. There is
nothing
wrong with having requirements that must be met for a person to
participate;
publish them up front some everyone knows what they are.
Shakedowns are crucial in helping determine where everybody stands; they
should help everyone decide whether they are prepared for the Philmont
experience. On a previous trek we had to tell one scout and his family
that
he was not ready to go to Philmont. Although it was painful to deal
with
then, he went back last summer and did fine. I believe it was a better
situation for both crews and in the end a positive experience for him.
His
whoops of sheer exhilaration when we broke out of the trees as we
approached
the summit of Mt. Phillips said volumes.
In the end, the advisor needs to assess the situation, apply his/her
best
judgment as to what is best for the whole crew and go with it.
Joe Flaig
Advisor, Crew 1865
Fairfax, VA
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List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
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Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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