The Phil-list Jul_2006: [philmont] Where does the bull go?

From: Terry Pogue <terrencepogue@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jul 28 2006 - 18:18:14 CDT

I sewed the bull on my wool jacket in '64 and on my and my son's red "fleece" (when are we going to lose those terrible wool jackets so cheap compared to the old ones and that no kid wants to or can afford to buy?) jacket in'05. The thing that struck me was that the material was the same,I don't think felt has changed much. It was a big deal in the 60's about the tip of the bull over the shoulder but it seems like that tradition has died out. Many treks now put the Tooth on the schedule, it was sort of rare back then to go near it.

Pete Swiggum <Peter.Swiggum@sbcglobal.net> wrote: My apologies... I didn't mean to come off so strong..

  Where the bull's tail is placed doesn't matter now. Anyone going to Philmont can buy a felt Philmont Bull for $1.25 and sew it on their red wool Scout jacket with the tail in any direction they want. Actually, I think the way the bull's tail is now, it's tougher to make it go over the shoulder anyway.

  I'm aware of the tradition of years gone by and I'm not trying to downplay those who have been to Philmont over the years. (I'm going to go look at my own jacket to see where the bull's tail is! LOL)

  One thing on the Northern Tier Loon... Since we had paddled a trek at Northern Tier before we went to Philmont, I already had the Loon sewn on my jacket where the Philmont Bull also goes. I just couldn't see taking off the Loon and replacing it with the Bull.

  What I ended up doing was moving the Loon over to the front RIGHT shoulder and putting the Bull on the front LEFT shoulder. The two actually fit quite nicely in those spots and I get to wear them both (and quite proudly, I might add).

  Not saying that's what everyone should do, but I get a lot of compliments on my jacket, especially on the Loon since people don't see it as often. It also stirs conversation about both places. Sure hope wearing them that way isn't a major faux pas.

  Pete Swiggum
  Green Bay, WI
  Northern Tier 2003
  Philmont 2005

    ----- Original Message -----
  From: Donald S. Roberts
  To: philmont List Member
  Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:13 PM
  Subject: [philmont] Where does the bull go?

  The bull goes on the left shoulder. Insignia guide. The loon also goes there, but you can only wear one, so if you do Northern Tier, you have to make a decision. I think there is something for Sea Base that goes there too.

  A rumor has been circulating for years that having the tail go over the shoulder means you hiked the tooth. There is nothing official about that, but as many people follow that tradition, it is not correct to say it means absolutely nothing, as it means something to those who choose to follow that tradition.

  I came in over the tooth, I wear the bull with the tail over the shoulder. However, being from Southern California, I so rarely wear my red jacket that it hardly has much purpose.

  Don Roberts
   Fullerton, CA
   From: Pete Swiggum
The bull is typically sewn on the red wool Scout jacket on the front left shoulder. Where the tail is placed means absolutely nothing. It's written someplace, but on short notice, I can't find it.
      From: Rice Brewer
  It traditionally goes over the left shoulder and, yes, it is tradition that the tail goes over the shoulder seam if you went over the tooth. I sat "traditionally" as it is not written dawn anyplace and I have seen the bull sewn on the red wool jacket in just about everyplace imaginable.

   srbscout@gmail.com wrote:
      As the lead Advisor for crew 711E-3, I completed trek 24 (after waiting over 30 years to get to Philmont). I proudly purchased my felt "black bull" patch for my red jacket, but I'm not 100% sure of where to sew it on. I know it goes over the left pocket, but the collar seems to cover part of it. I also hear that the tail is supposed to go over the shoulder seam, since I went over the tooth. Does anyone have a picture they can post for me to look at?
  Thanks.

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Terry Pogue
490 E Quail Ridge Dr.
Manchester, MO 63021
636-227-1215
terrencepogue@yahoo.com

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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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Received on Fri Jul 28 18:22:21 2006

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