The Phil-list Jul_2006: [philmont] Where does the bull go?

From: <dmarquis1@comcast.net>
Date: Sat Jul 29 2006 - 00:49:07 CDT

Everything that others have said about the placement of the bull is correct. For those who are interested in history and trivia, here's a little more information about the tradition:

The design for the bull was taken from a floor tile in the downstairs entrance to the Villa Philmonte. Originally, the intention was for participants to earn parts of the bull by returning to Philmont-- e.g., you would earn the body on your first visit, then the eyes, then the tail (or something along those lines). I believe the red jack shirt was chosen at this time as the most appropriate item of clothing on which to wear the bull. Until relatively recently, the bull was also available in white for women.

In the mid-1980's, when I was working at the Philmont Training Center, the Ranch administration made a concerted effort to downplay (even discredit) the tradition that the placement of the bull's tale indicated whether the wearer had been over the Tooth. This effort was made do to several serious rescue incidents and even a death on the Tooth involving PTC participants (who were allowed to hike the Tooth back then) who really had no business being on the ridge. It was thought that many of them attempted it because of this tradition of placing the tail over the shoulder.

At the time, the Director of Program, Lloyd Knutsen, even came over to the PTC campfires a couple of times to discuss the issue. He said very specifically that, officially, there was no such tradition. He also pointed out that many Philmont crews do not come into base camp over the Tooth. Did that mean that their Philmont experience was any less valid than anyone else's?

This was also when the Uracca Trail was created as an alternative hiking opportunity for PTC families. It was first opened in 1986, when I was an assistant program manager at PTC.

Doug Marquis
Asst. Mgr. CHQ Activities

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Pete Swiggum" <Peter.Swiggum@sbcglobal.net>

The bull is typically sewn on the red wool Scout jacket on the front left shoulder. Where the tail is placed means absolutely nothing. It's written someplace, but on short notice, I can't find it.

Pete Swiggum
Green Bay, WI
Philmont 2005
724-M2
ICWTGBTP!!

----- Original Message -----
From: Rice Brewer
To: philmont List Member
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: [philmont] Where does the bull go?

It traditionally goes over the left shoulder and, yes, it is tradition that the tail goes over the shoulder seam if you went over the tooth. I sat "traditionally" as it is not written dawn anyplace and I have seen the bull sewn on the red wool jacket in just about everyplace imaginable.

-Rice Brewer

srbscout@gmail.com wrote:
As the lead Advisor for crew 711E-3, I completed trek 24 (after waiting over 30 years to get to Philmont). I proudly purchased my felt "black bull" patch for my red jacket, but I'm not 100% sure of where to sew it on. I know it goes over the left pocket, but the collar seems to cover part of it. I also hear that the tail is supposed to go over the shoulder seam, since I went over the tooth. Does anyone have a picture they can post for me to look at?
Thanks.

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Received on Sat Jul 29 00:51:53 2006

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