George,
Our Council Committee Chairmen told us that in 2006 of the 6 dehydration cases seen by the medical staff at Philmont 4 of them had hydration pouches.
We took nalgenes and other Lexan containers and eventhough they took longer to drink from -- we were able to monitor each person's consumption because they water bag was not placed somewhere in their pack----
Also, we made it a crew chore to gather empty Nalgenes and fill and purify them. Having the same type of container makes this easy and something to do for others (a scout is helpful).
This year it was very wet and we did not have 1 dry camp. I typically took only 2 full Nalgenes on the trial -- I drank one before we got on the trail. For shorter 3 mile or less hikes
I drank half a Nalgene and took a full one.
"Drink all your water," Paul said. "Axiom: the best place to conserve water is in your body. It keeps your energy up. You're stronger ... " --- Frank Herbert
Yes, we had to put up the smellable nalgenes in a bear bag and it was no big deal to ensure safety.
Good last point!
YiS
Sam Taylor ASM T89, Austin,TX
701-H1 trek # 9
>>> On 17-Jul-07 at 1:33 PM, in message <MDAEMON-F200707171334.AA3408385pd50003799740@troop47.com>, GEORGE TAYLOR <gmtaylor@prodigy.net> wrote:
If there is one thing I would do differently the next time I go to Philmont, it would be to mandate what water containers the boys carry. Nalgenes are bulky and heavy and pretty much impossible to drink from while you are on the move. My ideal setup would be to require that each boy carry only one nalgene and that the primary water source be a three-liter bladder with a drinking tube. That would give each boy the capacity to carry four liters--more than enough for any dry camp. On most days, we would probably carry the full nalgene and keep only two liters in the bladder. Having the separate nalgene would keep a boy from drinking all his water without knowing it. (Also helpful for advisers trying to keep up with water supplies.)
I used a bladder for the first time at Philmont this year and must say that it made quite a difference in staying hydrated. Being able to take a few plugs of water as I huffed and puffed up Baldy (and other various and sundry unreasonably steep hills) frequently gave me the boost I needed to make it. The bladder also centered the weight of the water squarely between my shoulders rather than having it off-center or on the outside of pack.
My son has a camelback three-liter bladder that has a wide-mouth screw on cap, and it worked very well, but I use a platypus three-liter that has a zip-lock top. The platypus weighs only four ounces!
On this summer's trip, we required boys who thought they would like to drink gatorade on the trek to take an extra empty Gatorade bottle to be used for flavored drinks. That saved hauling nalgenes up in the bear bag at night (they stayed by the sump) and worked very well for us. When we encountered the water at Cimaroncito, I wished I had been able to mix Gatorade with it.
We also had one adviser who insisted from time to time on carrying (lots of) extra water for the boys. This is not a practice I would recommend because it sends the wrong message and avoids the very instructive moment when a boy has to ask his mates to share.
Good luck!
George
Larry Taylor <Larry.Taylor@co.travis.tx.us> wrote:
Clare,
We just got back and no Philmont staffer checked or enforced weight Limits
Some men my age (40+) were carrying 50-70lbs packs (insane).
One way to minimize weight is water --look at your itinerary if they are walking to wet camps or
up stream beds then they might need only 2 full nalgenes. If they need more then perhaps they
can borrow from the adult who always insists on 4 full water bottles because they can not trust God or their fellow crew member. Also, your Ranger will inventory your packs to make sure that they have the essentials and suggest that you leave some things behind --- like knifes -- the Ranger will suggest that you need 1 knife and 1 multi-tool per crew. That can be a great weight savings but do not try to separate a man from his knife -- in fact we had one Dad who brought 2 knifes.
Also, consider their clothes. Our scouts wore 1 pair of zip-offs and took a second pair without the legs.
The we left our thermal shirts and rain pants in the cars. We had long sleeve shirts and a fleece jacket each and these without the thernal shirt worked fine. Don't let them bring jeans -- they are too heavy and dry too slowly. My son did not use his 'sleep clothes' he used his black long johns as his sleep only clothes so he could have save 2-3 lbs leaving his dedicated sleep clothes in the car. Gloves also were no needed -- for Conservation projects they were provided by staff.
Have the smaller crew members share tents with the larger member and then the smaller one can carry a smaller portion of the tent. I did see some pretty small '14' year-olds when I was at Phil and really wondered if someone 'fudged' on the Birthdays? But boys grow at different speeds so maybe not.
Your 'conscience' should strictly enforce the 30% because we all want the Scouts to have a fun and positive experience. You load a 110lb Scout down with 45lb pack and it will not be positive on the second mile.
Work as a team and let the advisors and larger scouts carry more food and crew gear.
The lighter scouts can carry crew gear like -- poles for the dining fly, the soap,sanitizer,scrubby pad bag or the sump frisbee with spatula -- the light but essentilal stuff. Advisors are the hardest people to
agree to leave heavy unneeded stuff behind -- probably because they are older and 'wiser'
The philtents are a-frames that will fit 3 small scouts, so unless you have ultralight tents for them, have your crew lead check out a Philtent for the 3 of them --(its 6.5 lbs -- you need to buy tent stakes and a drop cloth). have one scout carry the tent body, one scout carry the rainfly and poles , and I scout carry the ground cloth and stakes.
Hope that these suggestions help
Have a great trek!
Sam Taylor ASM T89 austin Texas
701-H1 trek #9
>>> On 17-Jul-07 at 11:33 AM, in message <MDAEMON-F200707171207.AA0729860pd50003794181@troop47.com>, "Clare Grasso" <ClareGrasso@comcast.net> wrote:
Our crew is heading out to Philmont next week. We have 12 in our crew - 3 of them are in the 100-110 pound weight range. How strict is the 30% limit?
I understand that they need to carry the least amount possible. I have gove over their gear carefully to make sure they are not carrying anything more than they need. Their backpacks are weighing in at about 20 pounds without food, water, tents and crew gear. I have gone ultralight with all our crew gear, so they should not carry more than 2 pounds of it each. I am mostly worried about the first day of food pickups and dry camps.
Clare
Laurel MD
------------------------------------------------------- Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp ------------------------------------------------------- Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe send text email to: To: listserv@troop47.com Subject: unsubscribe Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com ------------------------------------------------------- As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. -------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------- Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp ------------------------------------------------------- Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe send text email to: To: listserv@troop47.com Subject: unsubscribe Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com ------------------------------------------------------- As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. -------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
To Unsubscribe send text email to:
To: listserv@troop47.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------
Received on Tue Jul 17 17:49:12 2007
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Dec 01 2008 - 13:55:27 CST