[Philmont] what I would do next time about hauling water

If you listen to Mark Anderson's talk about staying hydrated, he tells
you that everyone needs to consume 8 Nalgenes of water per day at
Philmont. That is a lot of water and there are not enough water
sources along the trails to refill 2 Nalgenes 4 times a day. Bladders
are the only effective way to keep everyone properly hydrated. Train
properly and pay attention when water is being replenished to see if
any of your Scouts are not drinking enough.

Dan Preston
Louisville, KY
On Jul 17, 2007, at 10:28 PM, Jim Moss wrote:

> So you are going against the studies of the US Army, Marines and
> others that show that bladders are the most effective way to hydrate
> and stay hydrated.  Bladders can’t be pulled out and looked at?
>  
> Only one nalgene of water per hiker. Seems pretty risky to me.  In an
> emergency you are leaving everyone short of water.  I just got off the
> grand and had an emergency.  I filled 2 bladders, 3 platypus full of
> water (close to 3 gallons) because I knew the team at the accident
> site needed the water.  If you had to do that in this scenario you
> would have left everyone with only one nalgene, no reserves, and could
> not have carried enough water to keep the rescue team hydrated.
>  Besides the weight of the nalgene’s would have cut down on the amount
> of water you can carry.
>  
> I’ve never put water in a nalgene. Too much spills when you drink from
> it. Big waste of water, too heavy also.  If you want to carry water in
> small containers use a platypus, easily cleaned, see through and
> weighs grams not ounces.
>  
> Having youth members of a crew carry a nalgene bottle that is a crew
> item, that is then used at cooking seems to be an easy way to pass any
> contamination around.
>  
> Folks quit limiting youth and yourself.  I love the stories of the
> 50’s and 60’s Philmont trips, but things have changed.  Equipment
> changes most of the time for the better.  If bladders were not
> efficient and effective, pack manufactures would not have put bladder
> pockets in all of their packs.
>  
> As I keep saying, if we keep working and improving we can drag the BSA
> into the 70’s.
>  
> Jim Moss
>  
> From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of
> Ched Hudson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 9:14 PM
> To: Philmont List Member
> Subject: [Philmont] what I would do next time about hauling water
>  
> I did not allow water bladders on either our training hikes or at
> Philmont. As an advisor, I wanted to see for myself how much my scouts
> were drinking, and the Camelbacks make that all but impossible. I have
> had several scouts on day hikes dehydrate even with the tube in their
> mouth all day.
>  
> The other issue for me was hygiene. Each crew member decorated one
> Nalgene to make it readily identifiable as his drinking bottle. The
> other bottles they carried were considered crew food, to be shared and
> used for cooking, washing, and of course refilling the drinking
> bottles as they neared empty. This made it easy to reallocate water as
> needed since some drank more than others. A 3 liter Camelback is 3
> liters of water that can't be shared.
>  
> Nalgenes are somewhat heavy for what they are, but they're pretty
> bomb-proof. For myself, my family drinks a lot of seltzer water so I
> used 4 of the 1 liter PET plastic seltzer bottles for my water.
> They're about a third of the weight of a Nalgene and very durable, and
> best of all they were free.
>  
> For dry camps and the long haul from Clark's Fork over the Tooth we
> had several collapsible Platypus bottles, lots of spare capacity for
> almost no weight. In 2004 we had several of the zip-top Platypus
> bladders, but two of the three developed leaks in the zipper and we
> switched to the conventional style for our 2006 trek.
>  
> >Ched Hudson
> Troop 994, Fairfax Station, VA
> Philmont '67, '04, '06
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com]On Behalf Of
>> GEORGE TAYLOR
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 2:33 PM
>> To: Philmont List Member
>> Subject: [Philmont] 30% pack weight limit--what I would do next time
>> about hauling water
>> If there is one thing I would do differently the next time I go to
>> Philmont, it would be to mandate what water containers the boys
>> carry.  Nalgenes are bulky and heavy and pretty much impossible to
>> drink from while you are on the move.  My ideal setup would be to
>> require that each boy carry only one nalgene and that the primary
>> water source be a three-liter bladder with a drinking tube.  That
>> would give each boy the capacity to carry four liters--more than
>> enough for any dry camp.  On most days, we would probably carry the
>> full nalgene and keep only two liters in the bladder.  Having the
>> separate nalgene would keep a boy from drinking all his water without
>> knowing it.  (Also helpful for advisers trying to keep up with water
>> supplies.) 
>>
>> I used a bladder for the first time at Philmont this year and must
>> say that it made quite a difference in staying hydrated.  Being able
>> to take a few plugs of water as I huffed and puffed up Baldy (and
>> other various and sundry unreasonably steep hills) frequently gave me
>> the boost I needed to make it.  The bladder also centered the weight
>> of the water squarely between my shoulders rather than having it
>> off-center or on the outside of pack. 
>>
>> My son has a camelback three-liter bladder that has a wide-mouth
>> screw on cap, and it worked very well, but I use a platypus
>> three-liter that has a zip-lock top.  The platypus weighs only four
>> ounces!
>>
>> On this summer's trip, we required boys who thought they would like
>> to drink gatorade on the trek to take an extra empty Gatorade bottle
>> to be used for flavored drinks.  That saved hauling nalgenes up in
>> the bear bag at night (they stayed by the sump) and worked very well
>> for us.  When we encountered the water at Cimaroncito, I wished I had
>> been able to mix Gatorade with it. 
>>
>> We also had one adviser who insisted from time to time on carrying
>> (lots of) extra water for the boys.  This is not a practice I would
>> recommend because it sends the wrong message and avoids the very
>> instructive moment when a boy has to ask his mates to share. 
>>
>> Good luck! 
>>
>> George
Received on Wed Jul 18 08:18:36 2007