The Phil-list Jul_2007: [Philmont] Shooting myself in the foot

From: Jim Moss <bsa.rec.law@gmail.com>
Date: Thu Jul 19 2007 - 10:58:05 CDT

Blow the water back into the bladder after you drink each time. That way
nothing drips. The older bladders all dripped and blowing some air back
into the tube kept that from happening. Also useful to keep the tube from
freezing in cold weather and the water getting hot in warm weather.

Jim Moss

From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of Karen
Kelly
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:32 AM
To: Philmont List Member
Subject: [Philmont] Shooting myself in the foot

Watch those bite valves while at Philmont. If they're not tucked away
safely inside your pack at night, the mini-bears will nibble on them. Last
year, our ranger didn't warn us and our first night on the trail mine got
nibbled. I had it tucked in a side pocket, but not securely enough. The
backcountry stores didn't have the replacement valve I needed, so I dripped
my way along the trail. The drip got bad enough by the end of the trek that
I had to rig the line up in the frame of my pack after each sip. Not that
big a problem, except for the absence of showering made each sip a fragrant
one as I reached up to get and replace the line!

Karen Kelly
Troop 185, Waterford, MI
Philmont 2006 (21) , 2008 (?)

"Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible" - Robin Morgan

-----Original Message-----
From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com]On Behalf Of John
LeBlanc
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:58 AM
To: Philmont List Member
Subject: [Philmont] Shooting myself in the foot

I'm about to shoot myself in the foot, but her goes.

Calvin made a point along with others for water bottles and against
hydration bladder systems.

Jim Moss posted to move past 60's technology.

I'm here to tell you hydration bnladder systems are the finest thing for
backpackers since freeze dried food. Let me explain.

Back in the late 50's and throughout the 60's, the Boy Scout water container
of choice was the aluminum canteen. If one had their daddys aluminum or
stainless steel GI canteen then they could claim bragging rights of my
daddys "been there, done that". The U S Army had been using the same design
canteen since before WWI all the way trhough WWII adn through Vietnam. WWII
introduced bakelite caps but essentially it stayed unchanged.

The Vietnam era introduced plastic canteens and the post Vietnam era saw a
move to water bottles.

Enter a better mouse trap. The hydration bladder system.

On our 2002 PhilTrek only one person used water bottles on the trek.
Everyone else used hydration bladders and sipped water virtually
continuously as we hiked. The lead advisor positioned himself at the back
of the line so he could drink from his bottle as he could not drink and walk
at the same time. I don't know about chew gum, I never asked.

My daughter adnd I carried 100 oz Camelback Unbottles which I have written
about extensively in the past. I could not ask for a finer system or better
performance. I carried a 1 liter bottle of water in reserve because the
only problem I have ever had with hydration bladders is drinking too much
and running out of water unexpectedly. Therefore I always carry a reserve
that is not in the bladder. But 3 liters/100 oz of water on an up to 12
mile hike is NOT too much water to consume.

Several times at Philmont I refilled the bladder from the 1 liter bottle
reserve after sucking the 3 liter unbottle dry. On a couple of long hikes I
supplemented the water capacity with a 1 liter Platypus bottle giving me a 5
liter capacity. I never ran out of water no matter how much I sucked on the
cool stream of water into my hot, parched mouth.

Most of the time when getting to camp, I had enough still in the bladder for
a cool shower of sorts from the bite valve.

We never had a dry camp so we did not have the need for carrying more water.

I can't say enough good things about hydration bladders. They afford the
user the ability to sip water almost continuously as it is needed. I really
like the system and I like what it does for me.

If you have a Scout that is a problem child as to water consumption, then
they are not ready to attend Philmont. They need more training and/or
practice in the proper techniques of the trail. When they get to that
level, then take them to Philmont. If that isn't enough incentive to learn
proper personal water management I don't know what is.

As far as monitoriong water consumption of Scouts, the advisor should not be
doing that anyway. That is a function of the crew leader and his assigned
duty roster. It's just as easy to inspect the amount of water in a bladder
as it is inside a canteen. A clear bottle might be a little easier to look
at but the benefits of hydration bladder systems far outweigh being able to
keep track of how much water a Scout has in his baby bottle. Let them grow
up and be responsible.

So you say it's a safety issue and it is the advisors duty. Well, I counter
that if the crew leader is leading properly it will never becopme a safety
issue. Teach him how to do his jkob properly adn let him do it. You as an
advisor can still keep watch over the happenings, but just not Mother
Hubbard style.

I've been taking junior high students into the desert Southwest for many
years and that age group needs a lot of coaching as to how much water is
enough. Dehydration can reach up and bite them when least expected.

However, I do remember that back in my early Scsout career, the command of
the day was to not drink too much water and to conserve your water in your
canteen and to make it last. That was purely wrong wisdom as has been
proven time and again. I take great pride in the faact that I did not pay
much attention to it back then adn I don't pay attention to those asking
personal water conservation today. I'm talkign about water one drinks, not
uses to water the grass.

To those of you who are against using hydration bladder systems, I challenge
you to devise a way to monitor water consumption and give the system a
chance. You will soon find that your Scouts have far fewer problems with
dehydration than when they were on the bottle.

Now for the shot to the foot.

My wife and I will be going with Calvin on Autumn Adventure. We will be
using Camelbacks.

Case closed.

If we backpack, we will put 100 oz unbottles under the top flap of our Kelty
external frame packs. If we use daypacks we will be using our Camelback
Cloud Walkers with 70 oz bladders. The only problem we anticipate is trying
to keep someone else from stealing our system once they see how well it
works.

For a high school graduation hurah, my daughter wanted to climb the highest
mountain in Texas in August 2005 no less. We did. It's only a short peak
compared with the rest of the Rocky Mountains, but still a 3,000 foot plus
elevation change. The hydration bladders worked as well on that climb as
they did at Philmont.

Hydration bladders are just part of what I use today. So much I even added
an extension tube to my unbottle and use it in my canoe adn kayak.

The chemical plant I work in received a tremendous amount of damage from
Hurricane Rita. We are just now completing some of the repairs. Cooling
towers were literally blown to pieces adn throughout the entire Gulf Coast
it has been sort of a take a number adn get ion line as far as cooling tower
repairs are concerned.

Repairs near where I work on one cooling tower were made by should I say
green carded miagrant workers. They move from job to job and work inside
these gigantic tinker toy like structures replacing broken and cracked 2X4's
and 4X 4's up to thirty feet long. The climb to the top is a long way adn
equally as long to come down to get a drink of water. The entire crew wore
Camelback 70 oz hydration bladders and sipped from them constantly. When I
asked one of the workers about it, his answer in broken English was "feel,
itees steel coold!" They filled them with ice and water and kept hydrated
all day long.

For Petes sake, I'm planning on buying my wife one called the "Mule" for
when she mows the grass!

The current year is 2007. As Jim Moss would suggest, be there!

And while on the subject of hydration bladders. There are hydration
bladders and

there are hydration bladders. Some are cheap and some are not. Sometimes
you don't get what you pay for, but you never get what you don't pay for.
If you want quailty, then you have to pay for it.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Until Autumn Adventure and then I'm sure we will hash this one out around a
campfire or two. I look forward to it. Lemme see, to win this one I think
I'll cook up a good crawfish etouffe and then chase that with some
blackberry cobler with ice cream on top. how's that for trail food?

John LeBlanc

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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
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loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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Received on Thu Jul 19 11:03:43 2007

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