The Phil-list Jul_2007: [philmont] Baldy Porch Talk

From: <Michael_J_Conkey@nbc.gov>
Date: Tue Jul 31 2007 - 13:50:16 CDT

IMHO, it wouldn't be very well received in base camp. The youth (and
advisors) are counting down the minutes until they board the bus for the
back-country. There are too many distractions and a whole lot of "it isn't
going to happen to us" running around. Our ranger covered lightning
procedures briefly during his time with us. Perhaps that "talk" could be
beefed up a bit "on the trail" where it would possibly be more "real" to
them and maybe better received? Another idea would be to cover it on the
bus ride to the starting points? There is a pretty captive audience for
you? Also, lightning procedures are something that should have been
covered many times with these youth at summer camp and other backcountry
outings PRIOR to Philmont. Here in Colorado, we take lightning very
seriously and our kids are just as aware of the safety protocols for
lightning as they are for safe swimming and boating. Blanket rules don't
work very well because the day we summited Baldy, it was beautiful ALL DAY
LONG, without a cloud in the sky. On the other hand, an early morning
storm can produce lightning just as an afternoon storm can....

And I don't just fault the youth. I base my comments on my observations at
the advisor's meeting you attend the night before hitting the trail. There
was a LOT of information presented "talking head" style and it lasted for
over an hour. I saw many snoozy heads and I saw the sign-in list near the
end of it's route through the crowd, and many treks weren't even
represented at the meeting. I know a bunch of what is covered at that
meeting is CYA for Philmont, but many of the advisors were just running on
empty after a long, long day (mine started at 4:30 AM on the day we arrived
at Philmont)..... YIS. Mike Conkey ('76, '02, '04 and '07).

|---------+---------------------------->
| | "Joseph Jansen" |
| | <jajansenjr@gmail|
| | .com> |
| | Sent by: |
| | philmont@troop47.|
| | com |
| | |
| | |
| | 07/31/2007 12:08 |
| | PM |
| | Please respond to|
| | philmont |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------->
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  | |
  | To: "philmont List Member" <philmont@troop47.com> |
  | cc: (bcc: Michael J Conkey/NBC/OS/DOI) |
  | Subject: [philmont] Baldy Porch Talk |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

I think it would be a very good idea for Philmont to provide specific
lightning safety guidance at base camp for all treks and special
reference should be made to lightning safety issues for particular
places on the Ranch.

Under certain conditions it makes no sense at all to attempt a climb
when there is a probability of lightning..

Joe Jansen
JAJansenJr@gmail.com
Philmont 1965; 1978
(who, fortunately, never had to deal with lightning at Philmont,
although saw plenty of rain at times)

On 7/31/07, Dr. Bob Klein <drbob@troop111.org> wrote:
> Many of the Miranda Crews are using the semi-new Black Horse trail to
> summit Baldy, and so are never getting the "porch talk". Neither, of
> course, are any of the Crews summiting from the Copper Park side, but
> the Miranda Crews have the furthest to go, and really need to get
> humping at first light (but in my observation, many do not). It takes
> roughly 3.5 hours to summit Baldy from Miranda, with no stops.
>
> As a guess, probably 2/3rds of the Crews going up each day (from all
> staging camps) never get a "porch talk" - either they are not going
> through Baldy Town on their way up, or (like my Crews) they pass through
> Baldy Town well before the staff gets up.
>
> For this reason, over the years, I have several times suggested to
> Philmont (in my Advisor evals) that they include an "How To" information
> sheet for all Crews who have Baldy on their itineraries. Probably it
> wouldn't be a bad idea for similar sheets for Phillips and the Tooth of
> Time. Maybe now they'll consider this suggestion a bit harder.
>
> The new Aztec Ridge trail also extends the danger period for those Crews
> who take it. Going down the Copper Park draw, you're well off the peak
> and pretty much out of the strike zone in 10 minutes - but taking the
> Aztec Ridge, you're still highly exposed for another 30 minutes, and
> semi-exposed in the treeline (along the ridgeline spine) for another 30
> minutes after that. So, a bad choice if the weather is uncooperative,
> or anytime after about 11 am unless it's a perfectly clear day.
>
> - Dr. Bob
>
>
> Jack Bolinger wrote:
> > We were told by the staff when we arrived at Baldy Camp during the
porch
> > talk around July 5th that we were to be OFF of Baldy by noon so that we
> > would not be up there in the afternoon due to potential lightning
> > strikes. We were not staying at Baldy but merely there to get our food
> > and showers before heading to Copper Park. I wonder if this crew had
> > been thru Baldy Camp before heading up?
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Tue Jul 31 13:57:04 2007

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