RE: [Philmont]: Shipping Coleman stoves.

Jim,

I completely agree, for convenience sake, that it is wise to ship stoves
and fuel bottles so as to avoid any hassles with the airlines or the
TSA. However, please send references to your claim that it is against
the law and a felony to ship them in baggage on commercial flights.
Like yourself, I too travel all over the world both on business and
pleasure and have researched this topic several times for my own
interest (see web links below). I can find no regulations, laws, etc.
that state that empty camping stoves and empty fuel bottles can not be
included in baggage. The website links below to the both the FAA & TSA
state that "camping equipment with fuel" are not allowed, but no where
can I find any reference that empty, properly aired out stoves and/or
fuel bottles, or these items that have ever had fuel in them, are not
permitted. I too have talked with TSA, FAA & airline personnel and been
told that empty equipment is allowed. The only airline I have found
recently that specifically states that they will not accept camping
stoves & fuel bottles, even empty, is Continental.

http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_12_18_2003
.pdf

http://asi.faa.gov/these.asp

http://asi.faa.gov/Docs/HAZMATByPassenger.pdf

http://www.aa.com/content/customerService/baggage/restrictedArticles.jht
ml?anchorEvent=false

https://www.delta.com/travel/plan/baggage_info/special_baggage/dangerous
_goods/index.jsp

http://www.continental.com/travel/policies/baggage/sports.asp?SID=E34CB7
9D5E284CBDB3BC2FC005CB76C1

Continental's Policy states: "Lanterns, stoves and heating equipment
which use liquid fuel, propane, butane or similar will not be accepted
as baggage in accordance with dangerous goods regulations." But I have
not found that stated that empty stoves and/or fuel bottles are
"dangerous goods".

You are correct, the rules have not changed from before 911, as it has
been illegal to carry fuel or fueled equipment on flights for quite some
time. However, prior to 911, I frequently shipped empty equipment &
bottles on flights. The reason that I do not do it now is to avoid the
hassles of uninformed airlines personnel or polices like Continental's,
even though I can find no documentation of it being illegal. Others on
the website have argued differently, but I do not believe that properly
aired out equipment (field stripped, drained and aired -out) represents
a hazard, and from what I can tell neither does the government. I know
it sounds like splitting hairs or arguing for arguing sake, but I just
would like to see some official documentation otherwise because this one
has bothered me for a long time.

Finally, how do you think UPS, FedEx, DHL and others ship normally,
especially overseas. By air??? Do they ask contents and insist on
ground shipment domestically?

Cheers,

Chris Bradley

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Moss: BSA Law
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 2:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Shipping Coleman stoves.

You sir, are wrong and so is your TSA employee friend.

It is against the law to take any combustible or container that has ever
held a combustible on a commercial flight. It always has been against
the law. 911 created the need to enforce it.

The JD stands for Juris Doctorate, for those of you who do not know,
that means Attorney at Law.

James H. Moss, JD
PO Box 16743
Golden, CO 80402

jhmoss@earthlink.net
jmoss@cmc.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Clark" <shredder110@hotmail.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list philmont" <philmont@troop47.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Shipping Coleman stoves.

> To all
>
> It is not against the law to ship a cleaned out stove and bottle in
> your PACK. Just do not take it through security on your person. As
> long as there are no fumes or liquid and the stoves are completely
> cleaned they
are
> not a fire hazard nor considered hazmat. What is more worrisome is
> all of the butane lighters left in the packs. They are a fire hazard
> and should not be packed. Your are able to take 1 (one) of those thru

> security on
your
> person. I have asked many TSA personnel and looked it up on the TSA
> web site. Now to avoid all of the hassle of a potential search of
> your
backpack
> due to left over fumes or potential nitrogen residue I would ship it
> out
via
> UPS or FEDEX (Which I have already done for our crew).
>
> Stan Clark
> ASM Troop 63
> Capt SWA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]
> On Behalf Of Jim Moss: BSA Law
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Shipping Coleman stoves.
>
> IT IS A FELONY TO SHIP STOVES on any airplane. Some airports may let
> you
get
> through, but it is a felony. Even if there is no fuel container on the

> stove, they are pulling them at Denver.
>
> They now have a display at Denver International when going through
security
> and the top shelf is a stove and fuel bottle.
>
> HOW CAN ANY OF YOUR SUGGEST THAT YOU HIDE A STOVE IN YOUR BACK PACK TO
BEAT
> THE SYSTEM. What are you teaching the youth in your care? IT IS OK TO
> VIOLATE THE LAW AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT GET CAUGHT?
>
>
> James H. Moss, JD
> PO Box 16743
> Golden, CO 80402
>
> jhmoss@earthlink.net
> jmoss@cmc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
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-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

 
Received on Mon Jun 14 17:29:12 2004