From: Alan and/or Brenda Thomson (abthomson@goes.com)
Date: Wed Apr 17 2002 - 22:48:18 CDT
Stephen Bush writes...
I found out I'm going on Trek #4. Does anyone have any suggestions or
comments?
Comments.....
You missed the discussion from the end of last month, which is just long
enough ago it is no longer in the 21 day archive.
Believe I have captured all the prior messages for you, following my
comments from our '99 trek, which I didn't have a chance to post last
month....
P.S. to Selden - Yes, you can post it!
- Al Thomson
Trek 4
Day 2 - Lovers Leap. A nice starting camp, and hike to it. The bus dropoff
is directly below the Tooth, where you will be the last day.
Day 3 - Urraca. Our Ranger in '99 suggested a predawn hike back to Lovers
Leap (the outcropping, which is about 25 minutes or so from the camp) for
sunrise and breakfast. This day you have two choices of trails - up to
Stonewall Pass and over the mesa, or around the north side. TREKS shows the
first, but if you do that route, you will be retracing most of it in the
opposite direction Day 4. Our crew opted for the northerly route around the
mesa, which has spectacular views of the Tooth (believe the photo on the
cover of the backpacking merit badge booklet was taken from some place on
that trail). While it is relatively short, portions of it are four wheel
drive and very exposed to the sun. A couple of boys in our crew had trouble
with the heat - get an early start. Program at Urraca is Challenge Events
(like at Head of Dean) and very good, especially coming early in the trek.
Make sure you check out Inspiration Point - more spectacular views of the
Tooth from just outside of camp. A possibility for another sunrise.
Campfire at Urraca is centered on ghost stories about the mesa. In
Logistics, our coordinator highlighted the contour of the top of the mesa -
it is shaped like a skull, and one eye is allegedly the portal to the
underworld where the Anasazi Indians disappeared.
Day 4 - Bear Caves. Say good bye to your Ranger and head up and over the
mesa. Make camp at Bear Caves and then go on to Crater Lake for program -
Continental Tie and Lumber Company (spar pole climbing and making ties).
Days 5 and 6 - Beaubien. Your layover. A lot of program, and probably will
have your conservation project here (or nearby at Phillips Junction). If
you brand boots, remind your crew not to hit any stitching. Trail Peak is
certainly worth the hike - respect the men who died in the plane wreckage
still on top of the mountain. Since you left Base Camp with four days of
food (through lunch Day 6), and you have the chuckwagon dinner that night,
you can skip the first scheduled food pickup at Phillips Junction - leave
Beaubien the next morning about 7:00 - 7:15 to get to PJ when the commissary
opens at 8 and pickup all the food, including the breakfast for that
morning. (If your conservation project is at PJ, you may be there anyway
and it will not be a big deal - in '99 our conservation project was the new
trail to Trail Peak, and that maneuver saved a hike to PJ pick up two meals,
one a lunch that would be carried back to PJ the next morning anyway).
Day 7 - Crooked Creek. Another short day. The day we were there in '99 was
drizzling off and on all afternoon, but we spent time on the porch doing the
pioneer puzzles, etc. The crew really enjoyed the program there - chasing
chickens, milking the cow, etc. Even though it is a staffed camp, the water
must be treated.
Day 8 - Clear Creek. Another easy day - back down to Rayado Creek the trail
you went up yesterday and then uphill along the creek to the camp, the
highest staffed camp at Philmont. Another trail choice is to continue up to
Wild Horse and on to Clear Creek - some commenters on Trek 5 note that is a
tougher route. Program is Rocky Mountain Fur Company - black powder rifle,
tomahawk throwing, and a cabin tour.
Day 9 - Cyphers Mine. You will have been meeting people each night who have
come down the trail you will be climbing, and will hear how tough it is. It
is actually off the ranch and not well maintained, and is fairly steep, but
our crew did not think it was as bad as described - I suspect it is harder
coming down it than going up. We left Clear Creek at 6:30 and were at the
summit at 8:20, including a stop for breakfast on the trail. Great views in
all directions. Just past Comanche Peak camp is a trail switchback with
more great views. As close as it is to the summit of Phillips, you won't
need another long break yet - but take five minutes. Long downhill all the
way to Cyphers Mine. The camp is very rocky with no sites to pitch tents,
so you will spend the night in three sided Adirondack shelters. More great
program - mine tour, gold panning, and blacksmithing. Campfire is the
"Stomp" in Charlie Cypher's cabin, after the nightly "Tough Man" contest.
Day 10 - Webster Parks. The trail follows the Middle Fork of Cimarroncito
Creek, crossing it repeatedly. We were on the trail at 7:00 and were at
Cimarroncito at 9:30. The Hunting Lodge was not open in '99, but the
program there in '00 and '01 was very good - doing it will delay your
arrival at Cito by 45 minutes or an hour. Our 9:30 arrival allowed us to do
10:00 program - left the packs in a pack line near the staff cabin and went
up on the ridge for rock climbing. Another popular program. Note that
afternoon thunderstorms often force the "rock climbing" indoors. Other
programs at Cito are Environmental Awareness and a side hike of Hidden
Valley / Window Rock. Plus you need to get to Ute Gulch for a food pickup,
which will take up another 1:45 or two hours - we split our crew, sending
the best hikers and letting the others rest up, take showers etc. The trail
through Grouse Canyon is very nice - take it in at least one direction.
With only one day at Cito, the crew definitely will have to make some
choices. Staff at Cito told us that Webster Parks was dry, so we carried up
water for dinner, but the spring was flowing when we got there.
Day 11 - Tooth Ridge. Your longest day, and tough. Longer if you decide to
go back down to Cito and through Hidden Valley rather than taking the trail
to Hunting Lodge. And even longer if you do rock climbing at Cito this
morning. A significant climb, though not steep, from Clark's Fork up to
Schaefers Pass and Peak. No water except if the spring at Schaefers Pass is
flowing (last summer is was about a quart every minute and a half to two
minutes - refilling a quart each will take some time, and you will likely be
in a line behind other crews). Dinner for lunch there may be an option -
that is what we did. The trail across Tooth Ridge is very rocky and very
exposed and takes well over two hours - keep a weather eye out for a
thunderstorm. You can climb the Tooth this afternoon, or tomorrow morning
for sunrise - most crews at Tooth Ridge opt for sunrise. If you'd rather,
there is a rock formation at the camp which also is very nice for sunrise.
Day 12 - Base Camp. A fairly easy last day. All downhill, but the trail
never seems to end, and is largely in the sun. Still no sources of water,
so getting an early start has the benefit of both beating the heat of the
day and of getting into Base Camp early to take care of the check-in
routine. You should have the afternoon free for a tour of the Villa
Philmonte or to take a bus to town.
All in all, a great trek. Outstanding opportunity for program, a couple of
peaks, a number of very scenic spots, hike in across Tooth Ridge - it pretty
much has it all, especially for a Typical rated trek. One thing to note is
that it is seriously back-loaded as far as mileage, but that also means you
have a lot of time to adjust to the altitude - by the end of Day 8 you will
have covered 37 miles (including the side hike of Trail Peak), and then have
26 more in the next 3 days, including Phillips and Tooth Ridge.
- Al Thomson, Troop 236, Schooley's Mountain, NJ
2001 703E11 Trek 21
2000 Autumn Adventure
1999 703K2 Trek 9 (now 4)
PRIOR DISCUSSION.......
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:33:12 -0500
From: "Brent Steiner" <STEINERB@michigan.gov>
Subject: trek 24 and 4 info
Our troop just got the word, one crew will be doing trek 24 and the other
crew will do trek 4. Any advice or information about these two treks would
be great. Our group ranges from 14 - 18 and the adults range from their
late 30's to early 50's, short and long legs and hopefully generally good
condition. I like both treks but can only do one. Thanks
Brent Steiner
Troop 141
Philmont 2002 726.
*********************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0500
From: "Feurtado, Walter (Contractor)" <Walter.Feurtado@ed.gov>
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: trek 24 and 4 info
I have done trek 4 (use to be trek 9) and hiked most of the trails of 24.
Trek 4 is the only trek that I would want to hike back to back years. It is
that good. Going from Bear Caves to Beaubien, consider hiking through Fish
Camp and the Phillips Junction. Trail Peak can be done the following day on
a day hike. When going from Clear Creek, have lunch just a little past
Comanche Peak camp. There is a viewing spot that you will want to stop at
anyway. Hiking the first day to Lover's Leap is the best first day hike on
the ranch (most first day hikes a flat and not very scenic). Be sure to go
through Hidden Valley on your way to Clarks Fork.
Hope this helps!!
Wally Feurtado
Philmont Training Coordinator
Baltimore Area Council
*********************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:54 GMT
From: Julian Love <JL@JLove.net>
Subject: [Philmont]: trek 24 and 4 info
Brent Steiner wrote:
> We will be doing treks 24 and 4. Any
> advice or information about these two
> treks would be great.
First suggestion - check out Selden's Philmont site at
http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/philmont.html
There are lots of trek journals and other info there that will give you
further information.
Both 24 and 4 look like great treks! Both offer programs in challenge
events, spar pole climbing, western lore
(branding), shooting, rock climbing - all of which are among the most
popular with the Scouts (in my experiences).
<snip>
4 has the layover day at Beaubien. Never been there but always heard from
others it is one of the most favored
camps. 4 gives you hilite opportunities to climb Trail Peak and do Mt.
Phillips. Phillips is considered by some
to be little less impressive than Baldy, but still a very rewarding
challenge, especially from the back side, as you
will do on this trek. At Cyphers Mine your crew can sleep in an Adirondack
shelter, and the "stomp" program is one of
the best evening events on the Ranch. Tooth Ridge is a great trail camp
with lots of interesting rock formations and a great staging location for
the hike into CHQ. It's a dry camp, so you gotta prepare in advance.
24 has 7 trail camps and 4 has only 4. Some prefer trail camps to be more
remote and on your own, and some prefer
staffed camps to be more convenient to program features and advisors'
coffee.
Two good choices with different experiences for your troop! You'll love
whichever you choose for yourself, but more important, all of your Scouts
will too.
Julian Love, Charlotte, NC
*********************************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:32:56 -0600
From: "Jerry Lewis" <jerrylewis@attbi.com>
Subject: Trek 4
Wally, I think we have to get all the way to Tooth Ridge Camp from Webster
Parks that day? Seems like a long, long way out of the way to go back down
to 'Cito, up to Aspen Springs, thru the Valley, and back down to the Hunting
Lodge. Is there a way to bushwhack down Grouse Canyon from the north route
out of Webster Parks that is doable, thus saving having to drop to 'Cito
first? I love Hidden Valley dearly; but it surely seems to be an expensive
side hike on Day 11. What am I missing?
Jerry Lewis
ASM, Advisor 2002 625-K-5, #4
Troop 303, McKinney TX
*********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:37:23 -0500
From: "Feurtado, Walter (Contractor)" <Walter.Feurtado@ed.gov>
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Trek 4
You raise good points. However, On day 10 you hike from Cypher's Mine to
Ute Gulch back up to Webster Park. When will the crew rock climb? It is
highly likely that the crew will be rock climbing at Cito the morning of day
11. In which case, going the extra distance through Hidden Valley is well
worth it, in my opinion. I would never, NEVER recommend bushwacking at
Philmont.
Just some thoughts,
Wally Feurtado
Philmont Training Coordinator
Baltimore Area CouncilSome comments on Trek 4...
***********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:51:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Alan Thomson" <abthomson@goes.com>
Subject: RE: Trek 4
Some comments on Trek 4...
Conservation projects - when I did that route in '99, there were projects at
Lovers Leap, Beubien, and Cimmaroncito. Last year I am pretty sure the
projects were at Phillips Junction and Cito. I don't know if the trails
being rebuilt got completed by the end of the summer.
Mount Phillips - as noted by someone else, Trek 4 (and 5) does Phillips from
the backside (up from Clear Creek). There are several treks that are
basically the reverse of 4 and 5, so everynight in camp you run into crews
who did Phillips
from the other direction, and all they talk about is the trail down to Clear
Creek, which you will be going up. Yes, it is steep and not well maintained
(it is actually off the Ranch in the adjoining wildlife area), but all in
all, really not too bad - it probably is much harder going down it with
packs, which is what generates all the comments you will hear.
Hidden Valley/Window Rock - it will add miles, whenever you do it. Either
Day 10 when you arrive at Cito, or Day 11 on your way to Tooth Ridge. Day
10 already has a sidehike to Ute Gulch for a food pickup. And Trek 4 is
seriously backloaded as far as mileage - you will have only gone 37 miles by
the end of Day 8.
But it is a great one - in addition to the various journals you can find in
Selden's pages, it is also the one the Bill Cass describes in his "Return to
the Summit of Scouting".
- Al Thomson, T236 Schooley's Mountain NJ
2002 Autumn Adventure
2001 Trek 21
2000 Autumn Adventure
1999 Trek 9 (now 4)
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