RE: [Philmont]: Itinerary change requests

We were 620 so by the time you got there they may have realized how far it
was from Turkey Creek to Hunting Lodge. Other than that long day, it was a
great trek. I was surprised when it was changed in 2003.

Phil Brown

  _____

From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Danny Burke
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Itinerary change requests

In 2001 we requested the same itinerary change on trek 20 from Turkey Creek
to Vista Grande in logisitcs and were granted the change, maybe you helped
us out on that one Phil, thanks.

Later in the same trek we came across a crew at Hunting Lodge that was there
when we arrived. This crew dropped their packs and took the Lodge tour and
then headed up to Cito for showers and to see if they could climb. Make a
long story short they arrived back at the Hunting Lodge around 4pm and asked
if they could stay there for the night. The Program Director told them he
couldn't allow them to stay and they should proceed on. The Advisor went
ballistic saying they had to go to Harlan, and as it was getting late the
Program director was putting them in danger making them go ahead on the
trail. The Program Director stood his ground and the crew proceeded on out
of camp. I doubt they made Harlan and probably spent the night in the first
trail camp they found. Which meant if there had been any kind of emergency,
they might have found themselves in the face of danger and have a lot of
people out risking their own lives looking for them.

I don't feel the program director put them in jeopardy, I feel the Advisor
put his own crew in jeopardy, its alright to double dip, but not at the
expense of not being able to stay on your assigned itinerary.

110 days to Base Camp but whos counting,

Danny Burke

714 A2 2005 trek 11

720 C4 2003 trek 5

717 R2 2001 trek 20

Phil Brown <phil@eisnc.com> wrote:

You definitely should not do what you want. If for some reason the staff
needs to find you, they will look at your assigned camp. Previous posts
indicated that one crew failed to get their arrowhead when they were in the
wrong camp during a fire evacuation.

In 2001 I requested a change in logistics from Turkey Creek Camp to Visto
Grande on trek 20. I was trying to reduce mileage on a very long day,
Turkey Creek to Hunting Lodge, about 15 miles. The change would have added
about two mile to the previous day and reduced the 15 mile day down to about
11. I was told in no uncertain terms No changes. It was a tough day, one
that no one on that trek will forget. In 2002, trek 20 was changed Visto
Grande was substituted for Turkey Creek. I guess my idea was just a little
ahead of its time.

Phil Brown

  _____

From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Troop 6 Scoutmaster
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 2:58 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Itinerary change requests

Then there are the crews that simply camp where they want.

In '04 we requested a move from Webster Parks to Aspen Springs (both
unstaffed) while in logisitics on day 1. We desired this because we would
be coming down the north fork from Cyphers to the hunting lodge and up to
cito for program, Websters is a bit out of the way and the leg from websters
to tooth ridge the next day is the longest on Trek 4, add to that the
required side jaunt to Ute Gulch for food and it simply made sense to us.
Finally it facilitated our desired route through Hidden Valley to Schaffer's
& Tooth Ridge. The request was declined, as no changes are the policy.

We had four other crews on the same trek as us, 4, and saw them every night
... except at Websters .. there it was only us, and our sister crew (both
from our Troop) that stuck to the itinerary. We bumped into one of the
others at Cito the next morning and they indicated that they had decided to
camp there instead, and indicated that they had obtained permssion from the
Camp Staff. Who knows what really happened, or where the other crews
camped. The point being, it never hurts to ask while on the trail, it can't
get worse than no. Once you are on the trail, you can, I suppose, do what
you want ... we honored the ruling we got in logistics as every good scout
should, others perhaps won't ask or simply just do it their way. In any
event, the ranch is explicit about reminding you and your crew leader to
only camp where your itinerary indicates you should ... so ignorance isn't
the answer.

In the end we gutted it out, went from websters to cito to aspen springs and
down through hidden valley. True, it made a long day longer, but, even
with the crummy weather we had Hidden Valley and Window rock were high
points .... I think we all would do it this way again.

http://www.usscouts.org/images/philmont/cito.jpg for a map

Jim

'74 '04 '06

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
Behalf Of T496ApacheA@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:51 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: Itinerary change requests

To the List:

Back in '98 when our Council sent 4 crews to Philmont, Itinerary changes
were allowed.

We had been designated to camp at Bear Caves, but when we pulled into Crater
Lake one of our experienced Advisors asked the camp staff to check with
Logistics. He asked if we could stay instead at Crater Lake that night, and
then switch to staying at Shaeffers's Pass trail camp the next night.
Logistics OK'd the switch and we were able to hike the entire Tooth Ridge.
It was a nice ending to our trek - made even better because we were allowed
to change a couple of camps.

What is the current Phil-policy these days about itinerary change requests
while on the Trail ? I know that crews, understandably, could not switch
during the Fire year in 2002.

Has the policy eased up any ??

Bob

C601

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Received on Sat Mar 26 17:41:40 2005