RE: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears

Habituation need not take place if the intervention provides something
equivalent to their normal diet. Impossible to achieve? Not given the
resourcefulness of men who know the scientific content of different foods
and could devise something that would not habituate the bears. Expensive to
do? Maybe, depending on the circumstances.

I don't buy that "Mother Nature" will always take care of things on her own.
  Practical experience has shown that forces in nature can cause damage that
overwhelms a natural ecosystem. Periods of prolonged drought are the best
example.

Whether an intervention is called for and how it is to be achieved is
something that is not an easy call. One fact is that the earlier you
intervene to help an ecosystem the less work will be required.

Grassland management is an example worth considering. You can't have cattle
graze continually on the same spot. You must move cattle to fresh pasture,
or move in forage.

The people at Philmont who were tasked with Waite Phillips to make it a
working ranch know all this.

Hopefully the wildlife, including the bears, will be assisted if it becomes
necessary.
Clearly the assistance should -- not -- include Philmont campers assisting
the bears with trail food. Assistance could include relocating the bears to
a better spot, a practice which has been ongoing at Philmont for some time.

Joe Jansen
JAJansenJr@gmail.com
Philmont 1965; 1978

>From: "James H. Moss" <bsa.rec.law@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list philmont <philmont@troop47.com>
>Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
>Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:00:50 -0700
>
>The problem is the bear does not we are intervening. We do, but no one
>sends the bears the memos.
>
>Habituation takes place immediately and the bears are dead. Maybe be alive
>now, but after the second strike the bears are dead. It's like giving a kid
>a chocolate bar. It never stops after that.
>
>Besides the ecosystem has not failed. It is a normal part of the life of
>the
>system, dry some years, wet others, etc. The only thing that changes is
>how
>we react because we measure it.
>
>Jim Moss
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
>Behalf Of Joseph Jansen
>Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:08 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
>Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
>
>Penalties for individual bear feeding episodes make sense. This would
>result in the bears learning that humans = food. Bad news.
>
>My question was related to whether there is any need to intervene, under
>the
>control of the authorities, in a failed ecosystem. Apparently there is
>not.
>
>Joe Jansen
>JAJansenJr@gmail.com
>Philmont 1965; 1978
>
>
> >From: "Joe Tavares" <j.tavares@comcast.net>
> >Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com
> >To: Multiple recipients of list philmont <philmont@troop47.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
> >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:24:54 -0600
> >
> >Well, there is that too! Bear Ranger at Philmont told our Wood Badge
> >group that jail time goes with it.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
> >Behalf Of James H. Moss
> >Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:11 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> >Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
> >
> >Jail time. Minimum fine for feeding wildlife on USFS or NPS land is
> >$1000 and goes up. NM state land I don't know.
> >
> >Dumb idea!
> >
> >Jim Moss
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
> >Behalf Of Joseph Jansen
> >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:37 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
> >Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
> >
> >I am familiar with the point of view that people should stay out of
> >natural ecosystems. There is considerable merit to it. A lot depends
> >on just how level the playing field is. If the ecosystem is collapsing
> >because of severe drought then some intervention may be called for. In
> >general it should be possible to prepare something "bearable" for a
> >bear to eat without giving it a human smell or the smell could be
> >masked with something odiferous the bears consider OK.
> >
> >The theories of survival in the wild make sense when the ecosystem is
> >basically sound. If it is extremely dry this may not be the case.
> >
> >I am just suggesting that some thought be given to this issue.
> >Probably, knowing Philmont, a review is taking place and likely has
> >been over many years. I hope the other species of wildlife are part of
> >that review as well.
> >
> >From time to time at Philmont when a bear has become a major problem
> >the bear has been hunted and killed.
> >
> >The question in my mind, which led to my post, is whether the dryness
> >is severe enough that the ecosystem has been crippled. Not likely but
> >I thought I'd raise the question.
> >
> >One thing about natural selection is that it operates over considerable
> >periods of time, and it is unlikely that this mechanism should figure
> >in wildlife management in general. What should be considered is
> >survival of diverse species and human management of the survival of
> >diverse species has been an accepted principle for quite some time.
> >
> >Just my .02.
> >
> >Joe Jansen
> >JAJansenJr@gmail.com
> >Philmont 1965; Philmont 1978
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: WHDickens@aol.com
> > >Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list philmont <philmont@troop47.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Please don't feed the bears
> > >Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:38:24 EST
> > >
> > >The way to provide bears, and any other species, with the sustenance
> > >needed to carry them through lean times is simple. Provide diverse
> > >ecosystems that allow their species, and those others with which they
> > >interact, the level playing field called "wilderness". It is not a
> > >good thing to provide food for bears, or any other species because
> > >of what we consider to be hard times.
> > >The
> > >ability of species to go through the feast and famine cycles of
> > >nature is what assures their natural selection process carries only
> > >the best selected individuals to procreate future generations. It is
>a
>fools'
> > >folly for humans to attempt to intervene, except in the dire
> > >circumstance of species extinction.
> > >
> > >Understand the ecosystem constraints that bears, and other species,
> >face.
> > >It is then that we can examine the habitat improvements needed to
> > >insure their long term survival. That is ultimately what
> > >conservation is about.
> > >
> > > Wade Dickens
> > >
> > >P.S. Thanks to Dr. Mark Brinson, my graduate instructor in Ecology
> > >at East Carolina University, circa 1978, and the many others who have
> > >taught me about the wonders of nature.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Fri Mar 3 13:31:23 2006