In a message dated 5/5/03 8:42:43 PM, p2ranger@anvilgear.com writes:
> Despite what many people say (even some people at Philmont), Philmont is
> not Leave No Trace camping. It is concentrated impact camping. There is a
> difference.
>
Actually LNT refers to a set of seven Principles which pertain to all
camping, hiking and even Front Country experiences. A good part of the LNT
literature talks about different approaches for using an impacted area versus
a pristine area.
>
> I'm glad that you went through the LNT course. More people need to be
> educated in how to take care of the land. However, most of the people who
> came from LNT to talk to Rangers during the summers were wasting our time.
>
I am sorry to hear that. I always find it informative to talk to people
about camping, hinking, LNT, fishing or just about any outdoor topic. I may
not learn anything new or agree with what they say but I never find it a
waste of time. I especially enjoyed the NOLS and ATC personnel who
facillitated my recent course. The one guide had 25 years experience all
over the world especially in mountain and desert environments. He had never
been to Philmont - but he had heard of it - and he liked the Boy Scout
Program.
> They were telling us what we already know and also things that are
> irrelevant for Philmont use. I've never had much respect for the LNT
> people that have come out there to teach (for various reasons). Don't get
> me wrong, LNT teaches a lot of great things. I teach alot of that stuff to
> the kids in my troop, but alot of it doesn't have a place at Philmont
>
I disagree. LNT has a place anytime you are in the outdoors - even in an
urban park.
>
> To echo John's point, Advisors should stay quiet, let the Ranger teach
> what ever method he/she teaches, and let the boys practice that. If they
> discover something else, great. The only time advisors need to step in is
> if safety is concerned. To quote a former staff member "Silly advisor,
> Trex are for kids."
>
I agree. And I think some Advisors/Crews go way overboard with the pretrek
training. I have consistently reminded my two crews that the final word on
everything is what the Ranger has to say when we get there.
>
> I have tried the meal in a cup method once, only becuase my crew insisted
> on doing it that way. I was not impressed as I crunched through my
> underhydrated food and washed down the pockects of powder clumps. I'm
> sure it has worked great for some people, but one experience was enough to
> turn me off of it. The only two times I've seen cooking outside the pot
> work great is the mashed potatoes in the cup and the oatmeal in the
> packet. It's safe to say I've eaten as many Phil-Suppers and as anyone,
> and the pot method has always worked. Every time.
>
I have only cooked two Phil-Suppers, but I have cooked hundreds of
dehyddrated and freeze dried suppers - many I have made myself from scratch,
or partly from scratch. To me it is silly to talk about PhilPhood like it
is some kind of alien fare. The secret to rehydrating is to use sufficient
water, use boiling water, stir well, and give it enough time in a container
that does not lose heat too quickly.
>
> FYI, Rangers are not allowed to teach human sumping to crews as it is
> considered hazing. Crews are allowed to do it, so long as the Ranger
> doesn't bring it up. Rangers still think its the best method for dishes.
>
I understand that and have been showing our crews several ways to achieve
minimum impact at meal and cleanup time. I demonstrated several levels of
"human sumping" and let the Scouts decide how far they want to go with it -
just like I do in my troop.
Don Hall
SouthWest Fl Council Contingent Advisor
Philmont 2003
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Received on Tue May 6 13:33:25 2003
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