RE: [Philmont]: Co-ed/Venture complications, was 4 MAN TENTS

This is one of those topics where you'll get a different answer from each
person you ask.

I took two coed venture crews to Philmont in 2004 and had concerns with the
number of tents we would be taking on the trail. Our council had one
opinion, the youth protection trainer had another. So I called Philmont.
Even then I wasn't 100% certain that the advise I got 5 months ago would
still be the same when we arrived.

In one of our scenerios we had 4 females. Two were 15, one 19 and the other
45. The scout in me said - two tents. One person from Council said register
the 19 year old as an assistant scout master so the two older females could
share a tent. Another person from council said let the one of the 15 year
olds share a tent with her mother and the 19 & remaining 15 year old share a
tent, then someone else jumped in and applied the Scout rule that an adult
is over 18.

Call Philmont. The answer you should get is that Venture Crew rules apply

Regards

Tom Fitzpatrick

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Donald S. Roberts" <donald@hummellawfirm.com>
Reply-To: philmont@troop47.com
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont <philmont@troop47.com>
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Co-ed/Venture complications, was 4 MAN TENTS
Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 14:23:33 -0700

From: Mike Hirschi
> I invite interpretation of the 1-person-in-a-tent rule with a co-ed
Venture crew.
> We have 5 under-18 youth, one of whom is female, a 19 y.o. "youth", and 3
adults
> (2 male, 1 female). Sounds like 3 2-person tents and 3 singles. In
reality, given
> that the female youth is daughter of the female advisor, they can share,
but one of
> the male advisors is the husband of the female advisor, so it's a bit
complicated.
> If there were no related parties in the crew, I see no way around the 3
singles.
> What are the rules on the 19 y.o.? If he were in a regular (ie. not
Venture) crew,
> he would be one of the adults...

I think it is clear from the discussion here that the 2 per tent rule is
more of a guideline for purposes of avoiding having too big a footprint at
campsites that have limited footprint (which can be a very real problem if
you have a late rising crew and all the bigger spaces are taken when you get
to camp)

So, presumably, you need not have 3 one person tents as you could use bigger
tents to take pairs to threes or even fours if your itinerary doesn't go to
a camp where that is impractical.

As to the mail advisor being a parent, I'm not sure what complicates this.
I believe when this has been discussed here before, folks came to the
conclusion that father daughter in a tent is not allowed, though I could be
mistaken. As a Venturing advisor, I haven't had to deal with this yet, and
my memory is getting fuzzy from my training two years ago, but I seem to
recall father/daughter isn't allowed anyway. Someone with chapter and verse
would be helpful here :-). Husband/wife is, however, allowed. Of course,
you mentioned female advisor is mother, but did not say male advisor is
father, just husband of mother, and with today's blended families, it
probably isn't safe to assume :-(

My understanding, again from discussions here, is that a 19 yo in a
venturing crew, or in a boy scout crew, though treated as a youth for
numbers (and truly a youth in a venturing crew), must tent as an adult. The
problem is that the 19 yo in a boy scout crew can tent with a 40 yo
unrelated crew advisor, but a 19 yo venturer cannot.

Perhaps the other venturing advisors on the list can be more definitive, but
the above is my recollection of the conclusions we have reached here in the
past.

Don Roberts
ASM T1201, CA C1202
Fullerton, CA
Eagle class of 73
Philtrek 05 808-K

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Received on Mon May 9 23:37:32 2005