[philmont] What has happened to the list?

Is it just me, or has the quality of this list really gone downhill? I started following the list in 2001 and have followed it off and on ever since. Those first couple of years, when someone would ask a question or a new topic came along, there was always some debate, but that is what it was - just a presentation of different ideas; pros and cons to that topic; alternatives to consider; past experiences; current trends; etc. There were lots of good ideas and lots of reasons why something may or may not work at Philmont. Lots of personal experiences passed along. I learned a lot and enjoyed following the list. As I recall, there was only 1 person that was a self appointed deity that knew more than anyone else could possibly know and was always right.

Seems like in the last several months there are at least a half a dozen self appointed deities who know all, see all, have done all. Their way is the only way that could ever be right and if you even question them or even think that you might have the slightest thought of trying something new, then you are a real idiot because their way is the only way that could ever be right - how dare you even think that there could be another way.

It is really sad when someone new (or old) comes in and asks a simple question, makes a comment, or presents an idea and they are treated extremely disrespectfully. They are berated to no end because they were so stupid as to need to ask that question. I mean come on; all of us were beginners at some point. Some had the opportunity to be beginners as a youth many years ago. Some were beginners just a few years ago. Some are just now beginners and approaching the magic 50, but trying hard to learn so they can be a good leader to their kids. With the current dynamics of this list, I doubt that very many beginners stay on the list long enough to learn much. Not sure what they would learn right now anyway - other than anyone who asks a question obviously is an idiot.

Since this is a list about Philmont, and Philmont is a BSA property, I suppose I could step out and be so bold as to assume that nearly all the list members are BSA leaders. If that assumption is true, then I am apparently wasting a whole lot of time with the youth in my Troop every month teaching the Scout Oath and Laws and just the basics of how you treat people. Because it is obvious from the tone of many of the comments on this list that those archaic ideals just have no place in a BSA setting.

I know that I am free to remove my name from the list. Believe me, I have considered many times. But this is one of those times just like I teach the youth in my Troop about the law "A scout is Brave". When you know what is right, you have to stand up for it, even if it means that you will be ridiculed, etc. The tone and demeanor of this list has gone down hill and it is time to fix it.

There is way too much knowledge and experience in the collective list members to abandon this. There is a huge opportunity for beginners to get a wealth of knowledge in a short period of time from the wisdom of the collective members. But just remember, that we have to treat everyone on here with respect. Their question may seem weird, their idea may have flaws, but this may also be their very first day on the list. They may not know anything at all about backpacking. We want to welcome them and get them introduced into the "Philmont method". We have to remember that there are many things done at Philmont that are not the norm on some of the major trails in the world. Some of those things at other locations are flat wrong; some are great - just not quite so great at Philmont given a variety of reasons. Some perhaps should be used more at Philmont. Let’s help people learn on here. Remember, there are many ways to accomplish a task. Some are wrong for a variety of reasons. Some are perfect. Some are workable, maybe not the best for everyone, but could be the best for a particular person, situation, etc. We might even learn something ourselves by getting back to treating others with respect and actually considering the merits of new ideas.

Sincerely

Allen Jones

SM Troop 168

Oklahoma City

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Received on Fri May 18 23:26:28 2007