The Phil-list Nov_2004: RE: [Philmont]: Registered in Your Unit

From: Joe Tavares <j.tavares@comcast.net>
Date: Thu Nov 04 2004 - 22:32:16 CST

It seems to me the only liability protection offered is that from the BSA
when you fill out your BSA National Tour Permit, where it asks if you wish
to use the insurance offered by the BSA (why they even ask, I don't know).
That being the case, and assuming you make the obvious choice to use that
insurance, then every registered Scout or Scouter making the trip is
insured, the charter org doesn't hold any liability, unless perhaps in a
civil court, where no amount of insurance would protect them. So cobbling
together a troop should not be a problem.

I do have some first hand knowledge of a crew with members not part of the
chartered org, one of the boys did get hurt from the alien troop and the BSA
insurance worked as designed.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Scott Calkins
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:28 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Registered in Your Unit

Bob,
Thanks for the heads up on dual registering "extratrooperal" scouts in my
crew. I look forward to any additional discussion on this topic.
Especially if the poster can offer insight for everyone who may live one of
those states whose legal system is based on Napoleonic Code.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
Behalf Of Dr. Bob Klein
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: Registered in Your Unit

>> Just a technical point: If you read the application criteria, it
>>clearly states that you can only bring members that are 'registered in
>>your unit'. I take this to mean that scarfing up a crew from old
>>buddies and surrounding units is not within the spirit of the rules.
>
>
> Where is it stated that you can only bring members registered in your
unit?
>
> My understanding is that, while the initial reservation must be made
> only for members of a specific unit, you can later "fill in" a crew
> with members of other units. I know that's the way Philmont has
> operated in past years.

Comment: This is not intended as a restriction, but rather (I am nearly
positive) as a means of clarifying insurance and liability. Remember that
the BSA insurance flow involves the family, the Chartered Partner, and the
BSA (and if you really screwed up, you the Advisor(s)). If you are running
an independent Crew, AND you have members from many different Units, then
there can be issues of which Chartered Partner is responsible for what
(perhaps Jim Moss or other List-Lawyers can comment). I sure we can all
dream up some "interesting" scenarios of fault and liability that would turn
into a legal free-for-all in independent (non-provisional) Crews made up
from Advisors and Scouts from multiple Units.

For this reason (or rather, as it was explained to me at the time), I have
been asked to dual register Scouts from other Units in my Troop for the
purposes of insurance on High Adventures, most notably Philmont, but also
Sea Base and Maine/Matagamon. Dual registration only costs a dollar, so
cheap insurance.

I will say this is likely one of the most obscure and most ignored aspects
of Unit planning for Philmont or other BSA High Adventures. I think the
last time I bothered was on one of my mid-90's treks, and no-one has said
squat to me since. I should pay better attention to this issue, but it gets
lost in the avalanche of things that have to be done, and anyway I haven't
had any non-111 Scouts in any of my High Adventure Crews since 2000.
Certainly Philmont doesn't check beyond making sure the participant is
registered somewhere, and (as Calvin
notes) they strongly encourage you to fill your Crews from any source,
especially if you are a borderline Crew that is going down for the third
time for lack of participants.

Also, to preclude the next obvious question, no, this doesn't apply to
Council-run provisional Crews, even if most of the Crew members derive from
one Unit. In such cases, the Council itself is the de facto Chartered
Partner.

- Dr. Bob

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe at
http://usscouts.org/lists/ Listserv Commands at
http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow Scouts and Scouters,
do your best to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind,
obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

Received on Thu Nov 4 23:06:00 2004

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Jul 26 2006 - 12:00:11 CDT