RE: [Philmont]: Read the entire comment before reacting

Those adults may not have had much training at all. There is certainly a
lot of training available but what training are you actually required to
take to be a scoutmaster or an advisor for a Philmont crew? BSA national
has to address this. They need a lot of adult leaders in order to allow as
many kids as possible to benefit from the program. They appear to be
reluctant to require an appropriate amount of training from the adults for
fear of scaring them off.

Bill Summers

Troop 720

Fort Worth, TX

  _____

From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Mike Barnhill
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 11:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Read the entire comment before reacting

It's a shame. I was heading south out of Cimmarron last summer to visit my
staph son and on the way into town was a crew (obviously) in one pickup.
Three in the front, the rest riding in the back.

These adults had been through plenty of training. They knew most of the
biggies in G2ss. They had to know what they were doing was wrong.

I believe there are two basic kinds of bad people: Those who don't know the
difference between right and wrong, and those who do but don't care.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Joe Tavares
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 11:32 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Read the entire comment before reacting

My first comments in my other reply are along those same lines, just not as
well said. But I do find fault with the adult leaders in that group because
of their lacking of supervision. Plus, SOMEONE transported the PVC and the
potatoes. I seem to remember one of the 12 points of leadership, taught in
Youth Leader Training, Youth Leader Instructor Training, and Wood Badge:
Setting the Example. What were those guys thinking?

  _____

From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of Jason Cotting
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 11:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Read the entire comment before reacting

The problem isn't enough training, know how, or knowledge in how to do leave
no trace camping. You can teach someone till they are blue in the face about
how to set up a campsite properly or how to dispose of human waste properly.
The solution is getting Scouts to have a propper outdoor ethic. Just like I
was taught at a young age that lying, stealing, and murduring is wrong, so
too do Scouts need to learn an ethic that will make them want to behave in a
way that LNT methods are used. To quote from a book:

"Appropriate behavior flows from an understanding of and respect for the
land, an inherent set of values within the individual user - a land ethic"
(Soft <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0811730921/aphilmorangersgu>
Paths, 10)

A big part of that is by the example set by the role models. Whether that be
the older Scouts or the adults.

I can remember my last mountain trek I took out. We did Wilderness Pledge
with my crew on about the last day of the trek on top of Phillips. After my
partner and I presented the pledge to our crew, we all sat and looked out
over the Merino Valley, soaking in our last big vista for the trip. After a
while, I got up a did what I always did when I got to the top of Baldy and
Phillips. I started tearing down all the memorials scouts leave up there.
Without any prompting, my crew started doing the same thing. It was
definitely one of those"EUREKA!" moments. They just got it, and I was so
happy.

-- 
Jason Cotting
Retired Ranger
><>
My Philmont gear advice:
http://anvilgear.com/jason/backpacking 
Resume: http://anvilgear.com/fire
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