RE: [Philmont]: Back on Topic - was Read the entire comment before reacting

So the next District Ranger in charge of Concessions comes from an area that
has a very bad experience with BSA units. The Valle Vidal permit comes up
for renewal (and if it is not on a permit, it will be in the next couple of
years based on proposed legislation and USFS rulings.) That person denies
the permit.

BSA hires attorneys and lobbyists and appeals. BSA gets congressman in the
act etc and the permit is eventually allowed, with a lot more restrictions
and lot more $$ on the part of the BSA, as well as a lot of money spent on
the fight.

Or based on Valle Vidal, Philmont is declared an inholding. Inholdings are
listed at one of the top 3 problems of this administration. The Feds force
the sale of the Philmont to them. Don't laugh it happens all the time around
here. Supreme Court just upheld eminent domain.

Example number 2 is extremely rare, but like I said, it happens in the west.
Example #1 is very plausible and probable.

When people think of youth and camping they think the BSA. When Federal Land
Managers think youth and camping they do not want to think BSA. If they
think BSA they think felons.

This may seem far fetched to some of you, especially in the east. But my
legal practice in the last 10 years has shifted from defending lawsuits to
access issues; Getting people on federal land. Rocky Mountain National Park
had 100 concessionaires seven years ago (churches, schools, etc as well as
backpacking and rock climbing guide services.) They dropped that number to
five and one of the 95 who lost appealed and got their permit back.

If they could figure out a way they (federal land managers) would restrict
BSA now. They started working on colleges 10 years ago and are getting very
effective at it.

Philmont is the crown jewel of the BSA and the example of how the BSA
backpacks. It will be tough if the only place you can go backpacking will be
Philmont. Think that is a joke contact the state colleges in North Carolina.
They are now only allowed to backpack in state parks.

Am I an alarmist, not intending to be. Am I worried and worried enough to
let you know. Yes.

Jim

James H. Moss, JD, Editor
Outdoor Recreation & Fitness Law Review:
http://www.snewsnet.com/cgi-bin/snews/law_review/index.html
The Outdoor Recreation & Fitness Law Reviews are publications for members of

the Outdoor Recreation, Adventure Travel, Hospitality and Fitness Industry.
For more information email me at: lawreview@snewsnet.com

Outdoor Law Specific Email: outdoor.law@gmail.com
Fitness Law Specific Email: fitness.law@gmail.com

Instructor: Ski Area Operations, Ski Area Risk Management Course Colorado
Mountain College
Email: jmoss@coloradomtn.edu
http://www.coloradomtn.edu/programs/sao/home.html

Adjunct Professor: The Department of Parks, Recreation, and Tourism,
University of Utah
Outdoor Recreation Risk Management, Insurance and Law
http://www.health.Utah.edu/prt/ Info: outdoor.law@gmail.com

PO Box 16743
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303-807-2275
Personal Email: jhmoss@gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of R Fisher
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 5:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: Back on Topic - was Read the entire comment before
reacting

No Flames Intended!!!

I'm sorry Kirk, but IMO this is on topic in many ways. There are a large
number of Troops and Crews that may be using NPS or USFS or BLM or other
agencies "managed land" to conduct training and shake-down activities.
Having to deal with negative preconceptions can affect all of them if
nothing else than just creating a bunch more hoops to jump through.

The Valle Vidal is not owned by Philmont; it is entirely part of the Carson
National Forest. Having morons such as the ones described could very easily
restrict Philmont's ability to run programs and operate staffed camps in the
area.

Granted, this discussion probably isn't as relevant or interesting as a
discussion on what is the best stove to use for backpacking at Philmont, but
there is some relevancy. At least there is from my point of view.

Happy Trails,

Roy Fisher

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Received on Tue Nov 15 01:26:30 2005