Well, it doesn't really work that way, exactly. And there are inherent problems in the lottery to boot. Bottom line, either way, if you get scouts to Philmont, then you have accomplished your principle goal.
In my council, for example, there is no way you can be sure to have a contingent crew (and you will only get one at the most) because they have a mini-lottery of their own. It counts as your 1 trip every two years, so if you have a troop that needs more than 1 crew, by going through the council here you would be really messing yourself up.
I have been actively involved in trying to get crews to Philmont since 1999 and the troop had been very active before me since 1993 or 1994. This troop NEVER won crews until the 2004 treks. The sorry thing about odds is that they don't improve from one lottery to the next. You still have the same odds (1 in 5, really?) regardless of the number of times you have lost. The council contingent allows us to improve on those odds, although the 2006 trek is the first time we have won that (hundreds of troops, 25 crews, biiig fishbowl).
If there were 2 things Philmont could do to improve the opportunities for troops to send boys to Philmont at least once, they would be 1) provide a number of crews based on the number of eligible boys in their troop, not the number the Unit Leader requests and 2) weight the odds in favor of a troop that has not been in a while (with a sliding weight based on the last time they went (never would be a LARGE weight).
The contingents have very high requirements including requiring a financial commitment for 12 crew members. If you only send 7, it'll still cost you for 12 and the council will probably never let you go with the contingent again unless you allowed them to send individual scouts with your crew.
So there are ways to make the whole thing functional and still give opportunity to troops and individual scouts. Question: is there a problem inside a unit that does not, at least, try to get a crew any way they can? Isn't High Adventure a key component of a unit's charter?
-- Joe Tavares NOTICE: This email is only intended for the recipient and not legally binding. Unauthorized use, publication, reproduction or disclosure of the content of this email is not permitted without my expressed permission. > Jim, > > Let me see if I understand your points exactly. > > 1. Concil contingents are around because they get > many scouts to Philmont. > > 2. The number of participants a council gets can vary > year to year, but getting significantly more slots > year over year is difficult. > > 3. By moving a troop contingent into a council > contingent and vacating your spot in the waiting list > you make it more likely that somebody else gets a shot > at going. > > 4. A council contingent can provide resources and > help with logistics for units who may have the > interest in going, but not the leadership with the > skills to handle the logistics. > > That seems reasonable, yet I still can't quite come to > your point of view, and I'll try to address the parts > that bother me point by point. > > 1. Unit contingents also get many scouts to Philmont. > 2. The 'Use it or lose it' setup has never sat well > with me. It encourages waste instead of thrift. For > example, when talking about the federal government and > their budget - you have departments every year buying > things they don't need at the end of the year so that > their budget doesn't get cut for the next year. > > In this case, it may be taking second and third timers > to fill slots. Yet, if the spaces [contingents] were > freed up for unit contingents, you would likely see > more first-timers going instead. This isn't something > councils can do anything about, and it is natural to > play for the most advantage possible according to the > rules. > > 3. Moving your unit crew to the council contingent > does effectively move-up the crews behind yours in the > waiting list. But isn't it like cutting ahead of > those ahead of you on the waiting list? > > Now, these numbers are out of thin air, as the only > time I've done Philmont we weren't on the waiting > list. Imagine that you are number 250 on the waiting > list. Due to cancellations, the first 175 crews on > the list will get to go. By you joining the council > contingent, you get to go when you would not have. It > also means that one fewer crew on the waiting list > gets to go. So, effectively, number 250 gets to go > when 176 does not - skipping ahead of 75 crews. > > With there being over 300 councils, if only half the > councils do that with 1 crew, that is a good number of > units that get pre-empted. > > 4. This is the second best argument for council > contingents (the first being that they allow boys from > multiple units go who couldn't otherwise). Yet, even > this falls short in my mind. Unit leaders who don't > have the skills to coordinate a cross-country trip AND > REALIZE IT (not much can be done if they don't) should > be able to turn to their support > (Council/District/UC/etc.) to find a way to get it > done. If that support and those resources don't > exist, there is a bigger problem. > > 5. What do I think should be done instead? I don't > want to see council contingents done away with - when > they do combine boys from multiple units that would > not otherwise have even the chance of going, council > contingents are a golden resource. > > I would like to see there not to be a penalty for not > using spaces for unit crews (I hope that sentence > makes sense). A one year drop should not cause > problems for the future. This however, is an issue > that has to be handled at the Philmont side and not > the individual councils. > > Instead, it would be nice if there was a way to help > ensure that as many crews as possible are at 12 - > through a process at the council level of pairing boys > with other units that don't have full crews. > > Respectfully, > > Jack > --- Troop 6 Scoutmaster > <troop6scoutmaster@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Jack, I'll disagree. Council contingents are about > > getting scouts to > > Philmont (or NT or DH or ...) period. > <snip> > > significant upward changes are difficult. If a > > council has a dry year or > > two it can take years for them to recover. > <snip> > > A council is loath > > to take their numbers down and so will lobby troops > > on the waiting list, or > > even that have won lottery positions, to consider > > going with the council > > contingent to make their numbers. In the end this > > helps move the waiting > > list along. In our case, we participated in the > > lottery, got a number low > > enough on the waiting list to give us hope, but > > large enough to make the > > trip unlikely. In the end going with our council > > solved a problem for them, > > got us to the ranch and freed up a slot on the list > > for the next guys who > > might just get a shot. Ideally a successful council > > HA committee would end > > up sending their number with nobody left on the > > waiting list, a difficult > > outcome. > > > <snip> > > YIS > > > > Jim > > SM T6 > > PSR '74, '04 & '06 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/ > Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp > ------------------------------------------------------- > Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com > Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com > List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp > List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com > ------------------------------------------------------- > As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow > Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy, > loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, > cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe at http://usscouts.org/lists/ Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp ------------------------------------------------------- Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com ------------------------------------------------------- As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. -------------------------------------------------------Received on Thu Nov 17 19:37:14 2005
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Jul 26 2006 - 12:00:12 CDT