[Philmont]: bsa group kicked out of forest

When I wrote about the adult being responsible for the ticket, I was speaking only of violation of regulations which are clearly stated on the permit itself, as in the example that started this thread. If the permit states that mazimum group size is 10, and the adult submits a permit application stating that it is for a group of ten, and is issued a permit for a group of 10, and then shows up with 25, with no effort to apply for three permits or break the group into three units, despite repeated warnings from park rangers on the scene, he should pay the ticket. As a practical matter, the adult will be issued the ticket in any case, and it is between the adult and the troop committee as to reimbursement. Always a good idea to have the uniforms and the committee on the same page and working together.

The same goes for camping and/or having a campfire in an area that is posted with signs depicting tents or fires with a big red line through them.

Clearly, the situation where a forest fire occurs (where fires are permitted or you're dragging a muffler) or SAR is necessary (not everyone is that good with a compass and mistakes will happen), would not be in the same category. New Hampshire claims to charge for SAR that is incurred recklessly (not negligently). Recklessness involves knowledge that your actions will result in a cost to others and reckless indifference to that consequence.

I don't agree that the regulations are that complex or hidden in some obscure law book. I'm talking about stuff that is handed to every user of the forest, every pemittee, posted at every trailhead, available on the internet, or by simply calling the ranger. After all, you're generally only going to one park at a time and you've had months to plan this trip.

If you train your boys right, they will see the sign at the trailhead which says that no ground fires are permitted before you will and let out a collective groan.

Where are you going to camp, how will you cook, where's the water? are simple questions that an adult leader should be able to answer on a trip. The rangers will help you with this.

The Adirondack park (which started this thread) also does not allow soap of any kind, even biodegradeable. I planned my menus to require boiling water only, so no pots needed soap. Does everyone do this? It's clearly posted in the information you get with your permit application. ( I don't expect any tickets are issured for campsuds, but rules are rules).

The regulations are there for the asking. Hand them out to the boys before the trip and comment on the ones that may seem the most restrictive. It will pay off in compliance. Again, I refer any Scouter planning a high adventure wilderness trip to the BSA publication "Passport to High Adventure". This is virtually a checklist for what you need to do. You will never "forget" to check the land use requirements if you follow this handy guide.

Bill Sheehan, ASM
Troop 55, Pitman, N.J.
Philmont '70,'72, Autumn Adventure '01,'03,'05 and hopefully '06

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Received on Mon Nov 21 20:13:11 2005