RE: [Philmont]: bsa group kicked out of forest

Isn't the troop committee activities chairman responsible for the tour
permit and the securing to any local or national permits? I am wondering how
in securing the permits the number of scouts and scouters would not be part
of that positions responsibilities? I understand how the ranger is going to
place that on the leader present, but isn't the "permiting" etc the troop
activities chairmans job that goes along with securing transportation and
the tour permit?

  _____

From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com] On
Behalf Of bill55@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:56 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: bsa group kicked out of forest

When I wrote about the adult being responsible for the ticket, I was
speaking only of violation of regulations which are clearly stated on the
permit itself, as in the example that started this thread. If the permit
states that mazimum group size is 10, and the adult submits a permit
application stating that it is for a group of ten, and is issued a permit
for a group of 10, and then shows up with 25, with no effort to apply for
three permits or break the group into three units, despite repeated warnings
from park rangers on the scene, he should pay the ticket. As a practical
matter, the adult will be issued the ticket in any case, and it is between
the adult and the troop committee as to reimbursement. Always a good idea to
have the uniforms and the committee on the same page and working together.

The same goes for camping and/or having a campfire in an area that is posted
with signs depicting tents or fires with a big red line through them.

Clearly, the situation where a forest fire occurs (where fires are permitted
or you're dragging a muffler) or SAR is necessary (not everyone is that
good with a compass and mistakes will happen), would not be in the same
category. New Hampshire claims to charge for SAR that is incurred recklessly
(not negligently). Recklessness involves knowledge that your actions will
result in a cost to others and reckless indifference to that consequence.

I don't agree that the regulations are that complex or hidden in some
obscure law book. I'm talking about stuff that is handed to every user of
the forest, every pemittee, posted at every trailhead, available on the
internet, or by simply calling the ranger. After all, you're generally only
going to one park at a time and you've had months to plan this trip.

If you train your boys right, they will see the sign at the trailhead which
says that no ground fires are permitted before you will and let out a
collective groan.

Where are you going to camp, how will you cook, where's the water? are
simple questions that an adult leader should be able to answer on a trip.
The rangers will help you with this.

The Adirondack park (which started this thread) also does not allow soap of
any kind, even biodegradeable. I planned my menus to require boiling water
only, so no pots needed soap. Does everyone do this? It's clearly posted in
the information you get with your permit application. ( I don't expect any
tickets are issured for campsuds, but rules are rules).

The regulations are there for the asking. Hand them out to the boys before
the trip and comment on the ones that may seem the most restrictive. It will
pay off in compliance. Again, I refer any Scouter planning a high adventure
wilderness trip to the BSA publication "Passport to High Adventure". This is
virtually a checklist for what you need to do. You will never "forget" to
check the land use requirements if you follow this handy guide.

Bill Sheehan, ASM

Troop 55, Pitman, N.J.

Philmont '70,'72, Autumn Adventure '01,'03,'05 and hopefully '06

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Received on Mon Nov 21 21:43:39 2005