From: Dave Edelman (dedelman@iname.com)
Date: Wed Oct 23 2002 - 22:24:41 CDT
I have to agree with both of John's messages. Having said that I think that
we all need to think about what we really need to accomplish in our
shakedown hikes. As a physiologist by training, I find it hard to believe
that even twelve overnight shakedown hikes will provide the desired physical
conditioning absent anything else. A smaller number of hikes, each with a
set of training goals will do much to smooth out the rough edges and might
just make the crew adjust a bit more easily to the realities of Philmont
when they do arrive on site. Having said that I think that something else
someone said cannot be emphasized too much. Leave a bit of mystery and
learning to take place at Philmont itself.
If I had my options, I would attempt to convince my crew leader to create a
list of objectives to be met over the course of all the shakedown hikes.
These might include such things as:
How to do warm up and stretching exercises
How to do aerobic conditioning as a ongoing program
How to use backpacker's stoves
How to walk in the wilderness
Following trail signs
Use of a map and compass
First Aid
How to be a team instead of a collection of people
I would then work with the crew leader to help him or her understand that
some of these skills can be taught once and everyone then goes on doing them
both on the scheduled shakedowns and as part of a regular program of
preparation. Other of these skills are taught once and used repeatedly on
successive hikes so the folks who miss the training session learn "on the
job" at the next hike they attend. Another category is the set of skills
that can be taught once and if you miss them, look it up in the book. And
the last set of skills is never formally taught but sort of happens through
the combined efforts of everyone.
I would then work out a schedule of which skills happen at which of the
scheduled hikes and I would publish that for everyone to see and keep in a
place of special importance (on the refrigerator door.) At the end of the
day you need every member of the crew to have mastered the skills and
achieved the physical conditioning not to have attended a specified number
of events.
Remember, at the end of twelve hikes some people have twelve hike's
experience, others have one hike's experience twelve times.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
Behalf Of Johnlebl@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:52 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: Mommy Sonny
In a message dated 10/23/2002 8:53:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
smith.13@nd.edu writes:
. He want to set required practices with the
stipulation that if you miss, you can not go on the trip. His mother, who
is also going as an adult, is backing him big time. His mother missed the
hike too
You have a lot more problems than two Scouts missing a training hike. You
have leadership problems. Good leadership would have breezed right through
this "problem" as though it were not a problem......which it isn't. It's a
fact. Two Scouts weren't there. That is all it is. What is the problem
with that
Right now the crew needs to focus on leadership, not required hikes.
As it stands now, you have an overly demanding field colonel and his
general.
Their actions go hand in hand. Like mother, like son. Two class A
personalities.
Left untreated, expect a rebellion at some point in time and probably
rightfully so.. Probably on day three on the trail.
Spend more time working on the ways leaders accomplish goals and less on
compliance with rules.
Goals? Rules? Are there any of these even established? Has the crew set
any goals? Or is the colonel and the general acting out the role of a
dictator.
Did either of these even poll the crew to see if all were even planning to
attend?
If not, then they have a bit lofty expectations.
Also the fact that a training hike was planned at the same time as
homecomming activities is a bit testy.
Maybe they wanted to stroke their own egos when Scouts choose the hike over
homecomming. Well, I guess the action of two of the Scouts answers that
question.
There are always going to be conflicts. How they are handled will determine
the success of the crew.
The negative view is that they are a bit demanding and want to "runn off"
Scouts who don't agree with their viewpoint. The positive part is at least
they are having practice hikes and having them early on in the game.
I went with one of these "father son" teams last summer. They were a pain
in the neck. The bad thing is we NEVER even had a shakedown or practice
hike before going to Philmont.
Notice Scouting doesn't have any office of "colonel" or "general" and
rightfully so.
Oh yes, another word for a dictator is "bully".
As Scoutmaster, you are in the drivers seat to sidetrack this early on.
Personally, I'd tell mommy in no uncertain terms, adult to adult and out of
earshot of the kids, that she is expecting a bit too much and that I would
not expect, ask or demand anything from the Scouts that I did not expect
from myself and that includes perfect attendance. I'd tell her that is the
way I operate and she needs to consider operating in a similar manner simply
because it's proven that it works and works well.
If she were not receptive to that suggestion, then I'd sign her up for
several of the excellent leadership courses BSA offers and tell her
attendance is mandatory. See how she likes that shoe shoved on her foot
whether it fits or not.
There are many ways to do this, but I'm not one to pull punches or be
politically correct when dealing with adults who are dealing misery out to
children not their own.
Another way she might understand since she is a Veternarian is to suggest
she take a horse pill. "You know, a little something to take the "edge"
off".
The sooner you open mommys eyes to the real world, the fewer problems you
will have or I should say the crew will have. If not addressed, this is
going to be the source of misery for quite a few Scouts who have a right to
not be miserable due to the action of an adult.
Sometimes I think my old Scoutmaster handled those situations best. He
simply told them NO and walked away leaving the adult to think about their
stupidity alone for a while. If this did not work, he simply informed them
who would be takig their place on the crew.
The other side of that coin is that this experience is good for kids to help
them work through the real troubles in life. Somehow I am one who believes
we don't need to add gasoline to a cooking fire.
Hindsight can often be 20/20. My only regret at interveining in a problem
the lead advisor had last summer is the I was too patient and I should have
acted sooner. Actually I had more faith in the lead advisor's ability than
I should have had. Given a similar situation today, I'd act sooner.
The bad part is you have a lot of work cut out for you, but the good part is
you have plenty of time to get it done.
Sort through the problem, accentuate the good points of the mother - son duo
and address the bad points. That is polish up the rough spots and you may
have a successful trek. May have, there are no guarantees.
One thing for sure is it doesn't appear like they will just sit back and
whatever happens is whatever happens. That isn't good either.
Good luck. Solving the problem will be worth the effort.
Remember the rest of the crew suffers under their overbearingness also.
John LeBlanc
Eagle Class of 1959
Phirst Phil Ptrek 1959
PhilTrek 2002 630H2 Trek 16
My latest adventure was yesterday,
Today is not over yet!
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