This post started out asking if Philmont was a troop scouting activity. I assumed that this was an advancement issue that was being raised. We still don't know that answer to that question but if all of his requirements for eagle were completed may we assume that the question has noting to do with advancement to eagle or other advancement?
As Bob mentioned, it would be helpful if you identified the reason why you're asking the question. If this is not an advancement question, why does he care what troop leadership thinks about his trip to philmont?
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-----Original Message-----
From: philmont@troop47.com
To: philmont List Member
Sent: Sun Oct 08 06:23:31 2006
Subject: [philmont] Great response Bob - ] Does anyone else consider Philmont to be a Scouting activity ?
Bob,
You made a good point about the Troop publishing their rules and their
interpretations of BSA rules. That is a great idea. That way everyone
knows from the beginning what is required. Without that Troop Rules and
Policies Handbook in place then I would think that the BSA policies must be
followed to the letter.
After talking to the BSA folks in Texas I learned that they do expect
everyone to follow their procedures. I was told that you are not allowed to
add or take away from their requirements unless it involves a special needs
boy. That makes sense to me.
My son's particular problem was that he finished all of his requirements for
Eagle by age 13. He was very active in the Troop until he turned about 15.
At that point he wanted to participate in more school activities. The
underlining problem was that the Troop was failing as far as program goes.
It was becoming a "social hour". He did continue to help out at District
events to give back to Scouting community.
Thanks for your explanation,
Gary Mauler
-----Original Message-----
From: philmont@troop47.com [mailto:philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
Bob Klein
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:39 AM
To: philmont List Member
Subject: [philmont] Does anyone else consider Philmont to be a Scouting
activity ?
Gary, as a bit of advice, it would be better to provide some background
and context when lobbing such a hot grenade into the battle.
My guess is that this is NOT a "provo" question - though that probably
is a subset of the issue. If that were the case, then all BSA High
Adventure treks, the Jambo, and all age-restricted activities (e.g.,
non-routine spelunking) would not qualify as Troop activities. Maybe
that's the intent, but I doubt it.
More likely this falls under the advancement requirement to "Be Active".
As background, the BSA's quasi-official line on this is: "Is registered
in the Unit". There is NO formal or higher definition of "Be Active".
HOWEVER - and this is a very big "however" - the BSA offers wide
latitude to Troops in defining what they consider to qualify as
"Active". The stipulations being (if you can find a District or Council
Advancement Chair bold enough to go there (most won't)): A) The
definition has to be defined and written down as formal Troop policy,
and passed by the Troop Committee; B) That every member of the Troop is
fully aware of the requirements; C) That the requirements are equally
enforced across the board; and D) That there has to be some sort of a
defined appeal process to the Troop Committee or Troop Advancement
sub-Committee.
Troops that have such policies in place are usually large, and are
usually battling what I refer to as the "Monday-Night-Scout" syndrome.
That being, Scouts who rarely if ever go on any events, but rather are
merely coming to meetings to finish out the string to a minimalist Eagle
before "hitting the road, Jack, thanks for the memories". As a group,
such Scouts collectively suck down huge amounts of Admin time, are often
a serious "bad attitude" and behavioral problem, and are a dead weight
around their Troop's neck. Many Scoutmasters or Committee Chairs just
boot such Scouts from their programs; others (who don't want to give up
on these boys) instead institute "Activity Requirements" to ensure that
all Scouts participate in campouts, day events, and service projects to
some minimal level. The penalty being "Not Qualified to Advance to the
Next Rank" or in some cases "Auto-Terminated for Failure to
Participate". At that point it's the Scout's responsibility and choice
to either "Get with the Program", transfer to another Troop that doesn't
mind having wallflowers, or drop out.
In such cases, usually the Troop has to (or chooses to) define what
constitutes a "Scout Activity". For some, any BSA activity suffices -
so Philmont, O/A events, being a staffer at summer camp, camping with
neighboring Troops, etc., all would qualify; for others, the event has
to be a TROOP Activity in order to qualify, and therefore activities
like Philmont are not "Troop Activities", even if the Troop is sending a
full Crew, and especially when the Scout is attending as a solo in a
Provo Crew.
Bottom line is, if the above scenario is an accurate depiction of the
situation in your former Troop, and they are adhering to the general
guidelines in defining "Being Active" as I spelled out above (and are
not being capricious about it), then they are 100 percent within their
rights to run their Troop as they see fit, under the wide latitude
permitted by the BSA.
- Dr. Bob
Gary Mauler wrote:
>
>
> I recently had a discussion with my former Troop and was told by the
> leadership that a Philmont treck is NOT considered a Troop Scouting
> activity.
>
> I did consider Philmont the ultimate Scouting adventure when I went 2
> years ago. What does everyone else think?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Mauler
>
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