Thank you.
What you are running into here is the age-old battle between objective
and subjective criteria. The (standard) BSA line about neither adding
or subtracting from requirements is an excellent and nearly bulletproof
guideline for objective criteria; however, it is little more than
hand-waving baloney for subjective criteria.
There are four subjective criteria for the higher ranks, to paraphrase:
Be Active; Display Leadership; Display Scout Spirit; and Live Your
Life by the Scout Oath and Law. The phraseology changes from handbook
to handbook, but in a nutshell, that's it.
Take "Display Leadership" - as horribly phrased a criteria as you will
ever trip across as a Scoutmaster. Here is one of my standard queries
to my older Scouts in our Conferences: "Think of the worst, most
pathetic excuse for a Senior Scout that you have ever seen, in any Troop
(don't tell me his name). Got someone in mind? Good. Now tell me, was
he a leader?"
The standard Scout answer (19 out of 20 times) is "No". Which is of
course absolutely incorrect.
The correct answer is: "Yes, he was - he was a *BAD* leader!"
"When you are First Class or above, when you are 5'6" or above, if you
have "natural" leadership regardless or size or rank, YOU ARE A LEADER
WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!"
"So, the question is, do you want to be a good leader, a mediocre
leader, or a horrible leader?"
And (therefore), in my not so humble opinion, the criteria ought to be
restated as: "Display Positive and Constructive Leadership, and be a
Proper Role Model for the Scouts in Your Troop". That's still
subjective, and pretty long-winded too, but at least it's (presumably)
closer to what the BSA means by "Display Leadership".
Similar arguments apply to Be Active, Display Scout Spirit, and Live
Your Life by the Scout Oath and Law.
The problem with subjective criteria, of course, is that their are no
standards by which to judge, other than whatever nebulous and constantly
shifting standards reside in the Scoutmaster's head. [The same as the
famous statement by a Supreme Court Justice about pornography.] This
invites capricious decision-making, if not outright abuse. For this
reason, many Units have tried to convert or at least partially convert
these subjective criteria into formally measurable objective standards.
For example, a minimum meeting attendance percentage and a minimum
"Activity Rquirement" in order to be considered "Active". Again, this
is not a matter of adding or subtracting from BSA requirements, but
rather an attempt to develop measurable criteria IN ACCORDANCE WITH the
BSA requirements. You can't add or subtract from a subjective criteria
- all you can do is try to define it in terms that everyone can live
with, and adhere to (or not).
And as I stated in my original post, the BSA does offer wide latitude in
such matters. Too bad they don't offer better guidance for those of us
in the trenches, who have to wrestle with these issues every day.
I hope this sheds a little more light on this murky area.
- Dr. Bob
Gary Mauler wrote:
> Bob,
>
> You made a good point about the Troop publishing their rules and their
> interpretations of BSA rules. That is a great idea. That way everyone
> knows from the beginning what is required. Without that Troop Rules and
> Policies Handbook in place then I would think that the BSA policies must be
> followed to the letter.
>
> After talking to the BSA folks in Texas I learned that they do expect
> everyone to follow their procedures. I was told that you are not allowed to
> add or take away from their requirements unless it involves a special needs
> boy. That makes sense to me.
>
> My son's particular problem was that he finished all of his requirements for
> Eagle by age 13. He was very active in the Troop until he turned about 15.
> At that point he wanted to participate in more school activities. The
> underlining problem was that the Troop was failing as far as program goes.
> It was becoming a "social hour". He did continue to help out at District
> events to give back to Scouting community.
>
> Thanks for your explanation,
>
> Gary Mauler
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philmont@troop47.com [mailto:philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
> Bob Klein
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:39 AM
> To: philmont List Member
> Subject: [philmont] Does anyone else consider Philmont to be a Scouting
> activity ?
>
> Gary, as a bit of advice, it would be better to provide some background
> and context when lobbing such a hot grenade into the battle.
>
> My guess is that this is NOT a "provo" question - though that probably
> is a subset of the issue. If that were the case, then all BSA High
> Adventure treks, the Jambo, and all age-restricted activities (e.g.,
> non-routine spelunking) would not qualify as Troop activities. Maybe
> that's the intent, but I doubt it.
>
> More likely this falls under the advancement requirement to "Be Active".
>
> As background, the BSA's quasi-official line on this is: "Is registered
> in the Unit". There is NO formal or higher definition of "Be Active".
> HOWEVER - and this is a very big "however" - the BSA offers wide
> latitude to Troops in defining what they consider to qualify as
> "Active". The stipulations being (if you can find a District or Council
> Advancement Chair bold enough to go there (most won't)): A) The
> definition has to be defined and written down as formal Troop policy,
> and passed by the Troop Committee; B) That every member of the Troop is
> fully aware of the requirements; C) That the requirements are equally
> enforced across the board; and D) That there has to be some sort of a
> defined appeal process to the Troop Committee or Troop Advancement
> sub-Committee.
>
> Troops that have such policies in place are usually large, and are
> usually battling what I refer to as the "Monday-Night-Scout" syndrome.
> That being, Scouts who rarely if ever go on any events, but rather are
> merely coming to meetings to finish out the string to a minimalist Eagle
> before "hitting the road, Jack, thanks for the memories". As a group,
> such Scouts collectively suck down huge amounts of Admin time, are often
> a serious "bad attitude" and behavioral problem, and are a dead weight
> around their Troop's neck. Many Scoutmasters or Committee Chairs just
> boot such Scouts from their programs; others (who don't want to give up
> on these boys) instead institute "Activity Requirements" to ensure that
> all Scouts participate in campouts, day events, and service projects to
> some minimal level. The penalty being "Not Qualified to Advance to the
> Next Rank" or in some cases "Auto-Terminated for Failure to
> Participate". At that point it's the Scout's responsibility and choice
> to either "Get with the Program", transfer to another Troop that doesn't
> mind having wallflowers, or drop out.
>
> In such cases, usually the Troop has to (or chooses to) define what
> constitutes a "Scout Activity". For some, any BSA activity suffices -
> so Philmont, O/A events, being a staffer at summer camp, camping with
> neighboring Troops, etc., all would qualify; for others, the event has
> to be a TROOP Activity in order to qualify, and therefore activities
> like Philmont are not "Troop Activities", even if the Troop is sending a
> full Crew, and especially when the Scout is attending as a solo in a
> Provo Crew.
>
> Bottom line is, if the above scenario is an accurate depiction of the
> situation in your former Troop, and they are adhering to the general
> guidelines in defining "Being Active" as I spelled out above (and are
> not being capricious about it), then they are 100 percent within their
> rights to run their Troop as they see fit, under the wide latitude
> permitted by the BSA.
>
> - Dr. Bob
>
>
> Gary Mauler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I recently had a discussion with my former Troop and was told by the
>>leadership that a Philmont treck is NOT considered a Troop Scouting
>>activity.
>>
>>I did consider Philmont the ultimate Scouting adventure when I went 2
>>years ago. What does everyone else think?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Gary Mauler
>>
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Received on Sun Oct 8 09:31:33 2006
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