[Philmont] Thrifty Brave and Clean Rebuttals

I've read both articles and find them to be defamatory (definition:
harmful, tending to discredit or malign) .

The Philfood is fine, basic food. The intent of my post was to
point to some suggestions to make basic trail meals gourmet meals.
"Do your best" is a valuable idea that
can be taught in Scout cooking.

I had the bad luck to point to some suggestions for improving trail
food on a web site that hosts two articles that are clearly defamatory
to the B.S.A.

I hope the B.S.A. sues for defamation.

Joe Jansen
JAJansenJr@gmail.com

On 10/14/07, John LeBlanc <philmontjohn@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> Since you were unaware of the Thrifty, Brave and Clean article in Outside
> Rag Mag back in 1999 I'm quite sure you are also unaware of the rebuttal
> that rained down upon the shoulders of Outside Rag Mag editors. I'll share
> it with you.
>
> The first was from Mark Griffin who at that time was head of Philmont
> Training Center and the second was from Dublin Clawson a seasonal staff
> member at Philmont.
>
> The third was from me. It did not stop there. Letter after letter
> continued to pour into the offices of the Rag. They ignored them all.
>
> Reading Dublins article, I immediately recognized him as one of the seasonal
> staff at the Kit Carson museum who had welcomed my family and especially my
> youngest daughter during the previous summer.
>
> Long story short. Because of Dublinsand otehr staff actions with my young
> daughter as a visitor, she decided at age11 to becaome a Venture Crew Member
> and return to Philmmont in the summer of 2002 on a regular trek shich she
> and I did together. We stood atop Mt Phillips together as I had done as a
> Scout in 1959. It was a proud moment in my life.
>
> The Philmont seasonal staff is composed of mainly college age kids that
> simply don't deserve the trash journalism that Thrifty, Brave and Cleam
> portrays.
>
> If you need Outside Rag Mags assistance to make your trail food palatable so
> be it but I DO NOT. I revert to my Scout training and do just fine in the
> culinary department. There is nothing wrong with PhilFood just as it comes
> from the bag. It's that good.
>
> Any writer and any editor that will do that to a bunch of innocent kids is
> the lowest of scum in my books. Mr. Goodheart carried his creative writign
> skills a little too far on that one.
>
> Have I said enough?
>
> Read on to find our for yourself.
>
> John LeBlanc
>
> *****************************************************************************
>
> Rebuttal to Adam Goodheart's Philmont Article In Outside Rag Mag
>
> From Mark Griffin Philmont Training Center
>
>
> Subj: [Philmont] Outside Article
> Date: 11/2/1999 5:49:52 PM Central Standard Time
> From: wmarkgriffin@email.msn.com (wmarkgriffin)
> Sender: Philmont@dynapolis.com
> Reply-to: Philmont@dynapolis.com (Philmont)
> To: Philmont@dynapolis.com (Philmont)
>
> I cannot adequately express the outrage among the Philmont seasonal and
> permanent staff. There are several summer staff members still at the ranch
> who are very upset.
>
> It seems to me that the writer had an agenda. Those that were with him that
> night watching the meteor shower said the incident described did not happen.
>
> I am very proud of the staff, for obvious reasons especially the PTC staff,
> and while I am sure that things that I do not know about, or approve of,
> happen - I know that those occurrences are rare. We have a lot of good
> people out here.
>
> Those of you that have been on the staff, or have worked with the staff,
> know that most of the young people at Philmont are top quality.
>
> And, those of you that know us know that we (ranch management) do not wear
> "beribboned uniforms" that make us look like "paunchy Paraguayan
> Generalissimos".
>
> As has been said here, we have a zero-tolerance drug and alcohol policy. If
> we find it, or have a staff member under the influence, on the property that
> staff member will be terminated immediately. In the last three years we
> have twice had drug sniffing dogs go through tent cities and have not found
> anything. We did not do so due to suspected use, but to assist local
> law-enforcement in training the dogs and their handlers.
>
> Again, we are not naive to think that there is no drug use of drinking among
> our 850 staff - average age just over 21. But, I would contend that the use
> of these substances is well below the average for their age group.
>
> I would recommend working on the Philmont staff to any young person. My son
> was a member of the staff, at PTC, at Base Camp, and in 1999 in the
> backcountry. I was much less worried about him at Philmont than at his
> college.
>
>
> From John LeBlanc
>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 02:27:20 -0500 (EST)
> From: Johnlebl@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Philmont] Outside Article
>
> Dear Friends,
> I see on the signature line of the letter below that this young man worked
> at Kit Carson Museum in 1998. I have a little story to share with you about
> him and his co-workers.
>
> I went to Philmont as a scout in 1959. It changed my life forever. Thank you
> Wait Philips for giving us that opportunity.
>
> I was not able to return until October 1993 (that is too long, but!) when I
> was on my way to Colorado on business and running ahead of schedule.
>
> I dropped by for a visit. At that time the information center at the HQ was
> exactly the same as it had been in 1959. That brought tears of joy to my
> eyes. A visit to the Seton Museum and buying some Philmont T-shirts for my
> daughters completed a very nostalgic visit. The information booth has been
> enlarged and "improved" now but that is OK also, I am just glad I got to see
> it again in 1993 as it was in 1959.
>
> The summer of 1996 on vacation we headed for the high country of Colorado to
> do some back packing with skills I learned and an appreciation for the
> mountains I gained at Philmont some 38 years earlier.
>
> There is nothing better than the smell in a mountain Aspen grove right after
> a rain unless it is Pinion pine smoke from a high country campfire. Those
> two smells stay with you forever! Thank you again Philmont for teaching me
> that.
>
> Anyway, on our return I tried to take my family to Philmont for a visit. As
> we came through Cimarron Canyon there were trees all over the place. I had
> to pull two out of the road with my tow chain to get through.
>
> We had to put off our visit to Philmont for another year. As some of you
> already guessed it, we were there during the Cimarron tornado. That night we
> drove on to Clayton, NM in one of the fiercest lightning storms I have ever
> been in.
>
> Well, our appetite was whetted. In late July 1998 we paid Philmont a visit
> again on our way back from Colorado. We went to the Kit Carson Museum and
> went through the program. My youngest daughter, at that time 11 years old,
> was especially interested as she dearly loves animals of all sorts and did
> they have animals of all sorts there!
>
> She was especially intrigued at how the floor of the inside was made from ox
> blood on dirt. See, I told you we were there. It was a really interesting
> program conducted by some very high quality young people. My wife even
> commented that she would be happy for any of these kids to be her own. We
> really enjoyed it.
>
> As we started to leave, it began to rain, so we waited it out as we were in
> no hurry.
>
> About the same time, my 11 year old spotted a little kitten curled up in a
> depression out in the yard in the rain and a dog barking at it. I assured
> her that that little kitten could defend itself well from that dog, but that
> was not good enough for her.
>
> She ran over to another building and found the girl who had lead our tour
> and told her the problem. She in turn went and got a couple of guys and
> another girl to come see about the kitten. Those 4 Philmont Kit Carson
> Museum staffers went in the rain to "rescue" the kitten for my daughter.
> Then they sat down under a shed and dried off the kitten and told my
> daughter how thoughtful it was of her to come get them to help her take care
> of the kitten. The photo of those staffers and my daughter tending the
> kitten in the rain is hanging on our den wall. It is strong evidense as to
> how wrong the Outside magazine article was. As stated before, he really
> missed what Philmont and it's staff are all about.
>
> Now folks, this is the kind of people I saw working at Philmont. I don't
> know if Dublin Clawson was one of them or not. I do know that the two guys
> were working on peeling poles for a fence in the rain that day. I do know
> that they took time to show my girls how people lived in an earlier day and
> time. I do know they took time in the rain to "rescue" a kitten and I do
> know that they were NOT doing anything the Outside magazine writer wrote
> about in that rag!
>
> This is what I observed going on at Philmont. My daughter is now 13 and as a
> result of our visit she cannot wait until she can go to Philmont to work for
> the summer. Her daddy also cannot wait for her to be able to do that so that
> she can experience what he did so long ago.
>
> That is what one man saw at Philmont and how he feels about Philmont and
> it's staff.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> John LeBlanc
>
>
> From Dublin Clawson
>
> In a message dated 11/2/1999 7:45:57 PM Central Standard Time,
> phildublin@hotmail.com writes:
> << Subj: Re: [Philmont] Outside Article
> Date: 11/2/1999 7:45:57 PM Central Standard Time
> From: phildublin@hotmail.com(Dublin Clawson)
> Sender: Philmont@dynapolis.com
> Reply-to: Philmont@dynapolis.com (Philmont)
> To: Philmont@dynapolis.com
> CC: rayado_3@hotmail.com
>
> I must add my comments after everthing that has been said. I have had the
> wonderful opportunity of staying on the PTC staff for this Fall. It has been
> interesting to see this article and reactions to it from here on the Ranch
> as well as from others.
>
> I have worked here for three summers and in addition have worked at the
> Florida Sea Base (I love BSA high adventure, what can I say!) In all of my
> experience, I have known of a few negative incidences among staff. Every
> single one was taken care of immediately.
>
> This article tries to paint a picture that just doesn't exist. Whether this
> author had a hidden agenda or alterior motives, I don't know (or really
> care.) While his insults and sarcasm were extremly offensive, they will soon
> be forgotten- I know they are not true. I just hope that anyone else reading
> this article will use good judgement and common sense and realize the
> falacies contained within.
>
> . One idea is to have activities for your staff. Sea Base calls them Staff
> Sparklers. Philmont has an entire Activities staff who organizes fun events
> for everyone. I know that all three high adventure bases have worked to
> improve their staff lounge and activity areas and continue to do so.
> Hopefully, this can help keep problems from ever starting.
> I would recommend working here to anyone- and I do all the time. Many of my
> friends have come here to work. They got here and were finally able to see
> what I love about this place.
>
> They call New Mexico the Land of Enchantment- I finally understood that when
> I came here. The author had blinders on, he left his heart at home. I feel
> really sorry for him; not because he wrote a terrible article, but because
> he missed something, something really special. He missed the beauty and
> enchantment that is this gift called Philmont.
>
> Dublin Clawson
> PTC Assistant Group Leader '97
> Kit Carson Museum '98
> Assistant Program Director '99
> Program Director Fall '99
>
> P.S. Hey Mark, my application is on your desk. >>
>
>
>
> From Adam Fromme
>
> Subj: [Philmont] Philmont Staff Members (was Outdoor Magazine Article)
> Date: 11/2/1999 2:35:12 PM Central Standard Time
> From: APF313@aol.com
> Sender: Philmont@dynapolis.com
> Reply-to: Philmont@dynapolis.com (Philmont)
> To: Philmont@dynapolis.com
>
> Hello all,
>
> I've been very reluctant to respond, but I finally feel compelled to.
>
> First, let me say this, please do not consider this "incident" something
> that
> goes on frequently. As many of my fellow staffers have commented to me in
> our private conversations, we all find it interesting that we didn't hear
> about things like this until we're back at school, and we're reading it in a
> magazine. I've talked to MANY staffers from this summer, and with the
> ammount I've talked to, I find it interesting that not one heard about this.
>
> Secondly, if anyone has scouts in his or her troop, sons or daughters,
> relatives or whatnot, considering applying for Philmont staff, encourage
> them
> to do so! Being a member of Philmont's staff has been a life changing
> experience for almost every member of it. Passing on the skills that we
> were
> taught to the next generation of Philmont "camper" (which is a horribly
> inaccurate term ... and participant doesn't beginning to describe the growth
> that goes on in a youth who has been to Philmont) is an amazing feeling that
> inspires each member of the staff that I know. There are so many great
> people on staff that each, in some small way, contribute to make a summer on
> staff an experience that cannot be duplicated. Almost every staffer that I
> met, from Ranger 1 to Chief Ranger, from Program Counselor to Camp Director
> to Backcountry Manager, from Trail Crew Foreman to Director of Conservation,
> from Betty at Registration to Director of Program Mark Anderson (an amazing
> person in his own, with perpetual positive attitude that makes everyone
> around him exude the same) to our General Manager, Bill Spice (who can cook
> some great eggs!); each one brings something different to the job, but the
> way the staff "gels" together gives you the feeling that you are part of
> something special ... that's why I'm going back next year. Not only are you
> working in the most gorgeous place on Earth, not only are you leading scouts
> in experiences that you've had, but you also work with some of the best
> people. Plus, there are so many diverse opportunities to do for a summer at
> Philmont. Rangering, Backcountry, Conservation, PTC, CHQ...
>
> But, on a MUCH happier note, just think, 8 months till Rangers show up! And
> Cons show up even earlier! I hear it now- "I wanna go back..."
>
> Adam
> --------
> Adam Fromm
> APF313@aol.com
> '99 Ranger
> '00 OATC Foreman? Ranger? Urraca Staff? Who knows?
> Adam's PhilHOmEpage:
> http://members.tripod.com/~Fromma2/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------
Scouting E-mail Discussion Lists @ usscouts.org
Listserv Commands at http://usscouts.org/lists/lc.asp
-------------------------------------------------------
Send listserv commands to: listserv@troop47.com
Send postings to: philmont@troop47.com
List FAQ found at: http://usscouts.org/lists/faq.asp
List Administrator: philmont_owner@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------
To Unsubscribe send text email to:

     To: listserv@troop47.com
     Subject: unsubscribe
     Body: unsubscribe philmont@troop47.com
-------------------------------------------------------

As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

 
Received on Sun Oct 14 15:20:21 2007