RE: [Philmont]: Pete Swiggum's inquiry

Our crew took trek 30 this summer. We had a great time despite the rain. I
recommend the side hikes and expecially over Wilson's mesa and through
Hidden Valley. It is strenuous, but my son, who turned 14 the day we left
base camp was the youngest and he had no problems. I highly recommend
Coop's guide. His section on conditioning is right on the mark. Do not go
to Philmont expecting that it is a walk in the park. Be in condition for
Baldy, Phillips, Black, Bear, Tooth and the rest.
 
Since the fire, there are some nice vistas that didn't exist before.
 
 

Russ Garrett

Bullivant|Houser|Bailey PC

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Vancouver, WA 98660-3310

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-----Original Message-----
From: Feurtado, Walter (Contractor) [mailto:Walter.Feurtado@ed.gov]
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:51 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Pete Swiggum's inquiry

There are about 6 super strenuous treks but trek 34 and 35 do not provide
opportunity to climb a high peak.
 
Trek 33 is really tough as is 30, both provide opportunities to climb Baldy
and Phillips. I would say that they are the two toughest. When there were
only 24 treks, trek 33 was trek 24, the toughest!!
 
Having done both I would recommend trek 30. Cooper has been on trek 30 five
times, all with very mature scouters and only took advisors who could handle
the pace. They trained hard and really had a great time.
 
If pete emails me offline, I can suggest how to lengthen it on the second to
the last day to see more of Philmont's Southern Country.
 
Wally Feurtado
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]On
Behalf Of John LeBlanc
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: [Philmont]: Pete Swiggum's inquiry

Here are some thoughts on Pete's inquiry...............

Original post.

<<First post in this forum so please excuse me if this topic has been posted
ad nauseum.

We're heading to Philmont next summer with a group of 14, 15, and 16 year
olds. Most, if not all, of the boys are strong, experienced hikers, or at
least athletic enough to adapt to anything thrown at them in the way of trek
difficulty.

With the 35 available treks, are there any specific treks that are
considered toughest or "must-do"? We prefer to take a trek that offers
challenge and gratification once it's completed. What is the best way to
determine which trek to take?

Pete Swiggum

Green Bay, WI>>

Spurred these comments.

I strongly suggest the Philmont Advisors Guide (Unofficial). Cooper Wright
will email you the guide in MS Word format for the ridiculously low price of
$10.00. There is a world of knowledge in the guide. I dont know if
Philmont would call the it endorsement, but there is a description of the
guide posted on the Philmont Staff Association website.
<http://www.philstaff.com/philadguied.html>
http://www.philstaff.com/philadguied.html . Coopers email address is:
coopwright@aol.com

Dont forget to order an Overall Philmont Map from
www.toothoftimetraders.com. Its a great planning tool.

 Scott Calkins

Dates on the sectionals and the overall are important. We "discovered" a
new trail that looked 2 or 3 years old. Our sectionals were dated 2001. We
had to triangulate and some other navigation in order to decide the right
trail. Fortunately, the quarter landed on the right side up :-)....

Joe

The short answer is, there is NO "must do" trek at
Philmont. What your Crew "must do" is find the trek that is right for
them.

Dr. Bob Klein

Study the treks and let the crew decide what is really important to them.

Charlie

Woodstock, GA

So, for most crews what you are talking about now is normally done in
February, though there is no harm in getting a head start. The planning
process can and should be used both as a crew building exercise (learing to
work together as a crew and make decisions that affect the crew) and to
build excitement/anticipation for the trek.

--
Al Thomson, Troop 236, 
Schooley's Mountain, NJ 
 
I had my eyes opened to this when on our trek (718-D1) our young men, ages
14-16, informed me that they came to Philmont to see all it had to offer and
they wanted to do it all, not missing any program.  Boy was I educated, all
I thought they wanted to do was hike. 
 
Bruce Bacon (73, 75, 76, 04)
Keller, TX
 
 
To all of which I offer the following.
 
There is no such a thing as a dumb question or answer, all questions and
comments/answers on this forum are important for the betterment of Scouting.
 
You will find that no two answers are alike.
 
It's kinda like "how do you skin a rabbit?".  The answer is "any way you
want to, you can start at the front, or start at the back on any point in
between and the result is the same, a skinned rabbit".
 
And so it goes with a Philmont trek.  You can do it any way you want to and
what you have is still a Philmont trek and all that goes with that, the
good, the bad and the ugly.  Some people work very hard to not experience
the bad and the ugly, but like they say "no trek at Philmont is bad".
 
First off, you are definitely getting off to an early start.  That is good,
really good. Most wait a while, but to me earlier is better.  That way you
dont have to push to get all goals accomplished.
 
Secondly, Cooper Wrights guide is a good one.  It is not endorsed by
Philmont.  In fact when I mentioned it to a high level Philmont exec he told
me he had heard of it but had not read it.
 
This should not be construed that they do not agree with whats in it.
 
Consider this, we, you and me, as an advisor are concerned with the safety
and well being and personal enjoyment of at the most 15 teenagers.  The
Philmont administration on the other hand is responsible with the same for
over 20, 000 people including youth participants on trek, their advisors,
thousands of staff and full time employees.  In short, they look at the big
picture.  We do not.  But that is just what they should be doing.
 
Consider the year 2002, the year of the fires.  They accommodated EVERY
single person that had signed up to go to Philmont.  No treks cancelled or
shortened.  An amazing feat in itself.  However, some treks did not get to
do as many programs as they originally wanted to but they did Philmont.
 
A comment about program.
 
The difference in Philmont and a backpacking trip in the mountains is the
program.
 
Kids today are a different lot from kids when I did my first trek to
Philmont in 1959.  Back then we were the program.  Today, kids are fine
tuned by Pac Man (oops, thats a little outdated statement) and computer
instantaneousness.  Not better, not worser, its just a different set of
Pholks aith different ideas, ideals, wants and needs.
 
The Philmont administration busts their buttons to see to it that those
wants and needs are met.
 
OK, advise.
 
Let the kids run the show.  All of it.
 
I repeat.........LET  THE  KIDS  RUN  THE  SHOW
 
Give them the  tools they need and then let them go to work.  Stay out of
their way!
 
Yeah, they will make mistakes that to us is obvious, but let them learn the
old fashioned way.  That way they earn it and learn it.  It will serve them
well for the rest of their lives.
 
Get the maps and the descriptions of the various camps and programs
available and let them sort it out.
 
Let me give you an example of how not to advise.
 
I know of an advisor that stated his second trip to Philmont wasnt as good
as the first because on the first they climbed Baldy and on the second they
only climbed Mt. Phillips.  This is absolute insanity.  Well, what you you
expect from the insane, but thats another story.  There are many good treks
at Philmont that don't even come close to Baldy or Phillips.
 
I will say this, I've never climbed Baldy nor do I think I ever will.  I've
climbed Mt. Phillips twice.  The first time was so long ago that it was
called Clear Creek Mountain.  Whichever, it was much taller the second time
at 57 that the first time at 14.  Actually the USGS survey says it actually
is a little taller now, but I say it's a LOT taller!
 
Many have said it and I agree there are no bad treks at Philmont  and Ill
go one step further and state that none are any better than the others.  It
just depends what the YOUTH expect and what the YOUTH want to do.
 
What they are going to remember is what they did and how they did it.  What
challenges they were faced with and how they overcame them.  For example,
water in the stove fuel, loss of two bottles of Polar Pure, broken bear
ropes, torn bear bags, leaky tents, cold sleeping bags and not enough of one
food item and too much of another and on and on and on.
 
I would not place too much emphasis on technique and how to do it as per se
Coopers manuel touts or the turkey bag cookers idea, but rather on teamwork
and how to approach a problem and to get it solved.
 
Don't be caught up in the micro managment trap nor lit the youth be caught
in it.
 
Organization by the youth and rotating the duties is paramount.  Everyone
needs to get a chance to experience all aspects of responsibility.  After
all, the purpose of the whole thing is making men out of boys and women out
of girls.
 
Today, my 18 year old daughter who went to Philmont two years ago is a much
happier person because she relies on the skills and the stick with it that
she acquired on trek at Philmont.  She will tell you in no uncertain terms
that it was the best experience of her life because of the fact that she got
to work together with a group of kids and work through getting things done,
not because they practiced the skills until perfection before leaving.
 
One last comment and then Ill rest my case.
 
Physical fitness prior to the trek is important.  Any active teenager is
more that likely physically fit enough for Philmont.  The average advisor IS
NOT.  Work on the advisors going on that one.  There are entirely too many
fat boy couch potato advisors going on trek at Philmont.  Get rid of the
excess baggage NOW.  If an advisor is borderline on the height weight thing,
they are a liability to the entire crew and should NOT GO.  That is my
opinion, it is biased, but fat adults on stretchers are not what kids should
be carrying on the trail at Philmont.  Neither staff, not trek participants.
Get my drift?  That is YOUR job to sort that out.  Don't hang that albatross
around the kids neck.
 
Yes, it is very difficult to tell a daddy he should not go with his son or
daughter because he is not in physical condition to handle it, but it needs
to be done more often.  That is your job.
 
Now, that all being said, systematically gather the tools (maps, trail
guides, trek descriptions) and turn the kids loose with it.  Help them
organize themselves and set goals in the months to come on what to do and
when.
 
There is more material available to you than you have time to digest in the
coming months,  A good place to start is reading other crews descriptions of
their treks.  The Internet is loaded with them.
 
Good luck and enjoy planning your trek,  Its almost as enjoyable as
actually being there.
 
John LeBlanc
Philmont 1959 - 2002
 
 
 
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"MMS <BHB>" made the following
 annotations on 09/03/2004 11:47:37 AM
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