Hi John, glad to read your post. Wondered how you were.
----- Original Message -----
From: John LeBlanc
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: [Philmont]: Pete Swiggum's inquiry
Here are some thoughts on Pete's inquiry...............
Original post.
<<First post in this forum so please excuse me if this topic has been posted ad nauseum.
We're heading to Philmont next summer with a group of 14, 15, and 16 year olds. Most, if not all, of the boys are strong, experienced hikers, or at least athletic enough to adapt to anything thrown at them in the way of trek difficulty.
With the 35 available treks, are there any specific treks that are considered toughest or "must-do"? We prefer to take a trek that offers challenge and gratification once it's completed. What is the best way to determine which trek to take?
Pete Swiggum
Green Bay, WI>>
Spurred these comments.
I strongly suggest the Philmont Advisors Guide (Unofficial). Cooper Wright will email you the guide in MS Word format for the ridiculously low price of $10.00. There is a world of knowledge in the guide. I dont know if Philmont would call the it endorsement, but there is a description of the guide posted on the Philmont Staff Association website. http://www.philstaff.com/philadguied.html . Coopers email address is: coopwright@aol.com
Dont forget to order an Overall Philmont Map from www.toothoftimetraders.com. Its a great planning tool.
Scott Calkins
Dates on the sectionals and the overall are important. We "discovered" a new trail that looked 2 or 3 years old. Our sectionals were dated 2001. We had to triangulate and some other navigation in order to decide the right trail. Fortunately, the quarter landed on the right side up :-)....
Joe
The short answer is, there is NO "must do" trek at Philmont. What your Crew "must do" is find the trek that is right for them.
Dr. Bob Klein
Study the treks and let the crew decide what is really important to them.
Charlie
Woodstock, GA
So, for most crews what you are talking about now is normally done in February, though there is no harm in getting a head start. The planning process can and should be used both as a crew building exercise (learing to work together as a crew and make decisions that affect the crew) and to build excitement/anticipation for the trek.
--
Al Thomson, Troop 236,
Schooley's Mountain, NJ
I had my eyes opened to this when on our trek (718-D1) our young men, ages 14-16, informed me that they came to Philmont to see all it had to offer and they wanted to do it all, not missing any program. Boy was I educated, all I thought they wanted to do was hike.
Bruce Bacon (73, 75, 76, 04)
Keller, TX
To all of which I offer the following.
There is no such a thing as a dumb question or answer, all questions and comments/answers on this forum are important for the betterment of Scouting.
You will find that no two answers are alike.
It's kinda like "how do you skin a rabbit?". The answer is "any way you want to, you can start at the front, or start at the back on any point in between and the result is the same, a skinned rabbit".
And so it goes with a Philmont trek. You can do it any way you want to and what you have is still a Philmont trek and all that goes with that, the good, the bad and the ugly. Some people work very hard to not experience the bad and the ugly, but like they say "no trek at Philmont is bad".
First off, you are definitely getting off to an early start. That is good, really good. Most wait a while, but to me earlier is better. That way you dont have to push to get all goals accomplished.
Secondly, Cooper Wrights guide is a good one. It is not endorsed by Philmont. In fact when I mentioned it to a high level Philmont exec he told me he had heard of it but had not read it.
This should not be construed that they do not agree with whats in it.
Consider this, we, you and me, as an advisor are concerned with the safety and well being and personal enjoyment of at the most 15 teenagers. The Philmont administration on the other hand is responsible with the same for over 20, 000 people including youth participants on trek, their advisors, thousands of staff and full time employees. In short, they look at the big picture. We do not. But that is just what they should be doing.
Consider the year 2002, the year of the fires. They accommodated EVERY single person that had signed up to go to Philmont. No treks cancelled or shortened. An amazing feat in itself. However, some treks did not get to do as many programs as they originally wanted to but they did Philmont.
A comment about program.
The difference in Philmont and a backpacking trip in the mountains is the program.
Kids today are a different lot from kids when I did my first trek to Philmont in 1959. Back then we were the program. Today, kids are fine tuned by Pac Man (oops, thats a little outdated statement) and computer instantaneousness. Not better, not worser, its just a different set of Pholks aith different ideas, ideals, wants and needs.
The Philmont administration busts their buttons to see to it that those wants and needs are met.
OK, advise.
Let the kids run the show. All of it.
I repeat.........LET THE KIDS RUN THE SHOW
Give them the tools they need and then let them go to work. Stay out of their way!
Yeah, they will make mistakes that to us is obvious, but let them learn the old fashioned way. That way they earn it and learn it. It will serve them well for the rest of their lives.
Get the maps and the descriptions of the various camps and programs available and let them sort it out.
Let me give you an example of how not to advise.
I know of an advisor that stated his second trip to Philmont wasnt as good as the first because on the first they climbed Baldy and on the second they only climbed Mt. Phillips. This is absolute insanity. Well, what you you expect from the insane, but thats another story. There are many good treks at Philmont that don't even come close to Baldy or Phillips.
I will say this, I've never climbed Baldy nor do I think I ever will. I've climbed Mt. Phillips twice. The first time was so long ago that it was called Clear Creek Mountain. Whichever, it was much taller the second time at 57 that the first time at 14. Actually the USGS survey says it actually is a little taller now, but I say it's a LOT taller!
Many have said it and I agree there are no bad treks at Philmont and Ill go one step further and state that none are any better than the others. It just depends what the YOUTH expect and what the YOUTH want to do.
What they are going to remember is what they did and how they did it. What challenges they were faced with and how they overcame them. For example, water in the stove fuel, loss of two bottles of Polar Pure, broken bear ropes, torn bear bags, leaky tents, cold sleeping bags and not enough of one food item and too much of another and on and on and on.
I would not place too much emphasis on technique and how to do it as per se Coopers manuel touts or the turkey bag cookers idea, but rather on teamwork and how to approach a problem and to get it solved.
Don't be caught up in the micro managment trap nor lit the youth be caught in it.
Organization by the youth and rotating the duties is paramount. Everyone needs to get a chance to experience all aspects of responsibility. After all, the purpose of the whole thing is making men out of boys and women out of girls.
Today, my 18 year old daughter who went to Philmont two years ago is a much happier person because she relies on the skills and the stick with it that she acquired on trek at Philmont. She will tell you in no uncertain terms that it was the best experience of her life because of the fact that she got to work together with a group of kids and work through getting things done, not because they practiced the skills until perfection before leaving.
One last comment and then Ill rest my case.
Physical fitness prior to the trek is important. Any active teenager is more that likely physically fit enough for Philmont. The average advisor IS NOT. Work on the advisors going on that one. There are entirely too many fat boy couch potato advisors going on trek at Philmont. Get rid of the excess baggage NOW. If an advisor is borderline on the height weight thing, they are a liability to the entire crew and should NOT GO. That is my opinion, it is biased, but fat adults on stretchers are not what kids should be carrying on the trail! at Philmont. Neither staff, not trek participants. Get my drift? That is YOUR job to sort that out. Don't hang that albatross around the kids neck.
Yes, it is very difficult to tell a daddy he should not go with his son or daughter because he is not in physical condition to handle it, but it needs to be done more often. That is your job.
Now, that all being said, systematically gather the tools (maps, trail guides, trek descriptions) and turn the kids loose with it. Help them organize themselves and set goals in the months to come on what to do and when.
There is more material available to you than you have time to digest in the coming months, A good place to start is reading other crews descriptions of their treks. The Internet is loaded with them.
Good luck and enjoy planning your trek, Its almost as enjoyable as actually being there.
John LeBlanc
Philmont 1959 - 2002
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Received on Fri Sep 3 20:20:36 2004
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