Our troop/crew sandwiched a NT trip in between Philmont in 2002 and
Philmont in 2004. We used a commercial outfitter. The kids (most of the
repeats from Philmont 2002) had a great time. Our total cost was
comparable to Philmont, even considering the fact that we had to drive well
over 1,000 more miles to get to NT. The commercial outfitter is about 20%
cheaper (at least), but you DON'T get a ranger like NT provides. Our boys
were of the age & ability that they felt the ranger would be more of a
babysitter than anything else, so we went commercial.
The consensus was: Philmont was better. The program at Philmont is what
sold them. They felt that NT was much more RELAXING, and thus, better for
adults <g>. There was lots of free time (you can canoe MUCH faster than
you can backpack), but you can only fish and swim so much... We are
looking at another canoe trip in 2006, but this time we will probably
arrange our own trip up in Wyoming and save the long drive! Using the
lessons we learned at NT in 2003, we hope to improve on "water" trip
concept as a whole.
If you want more of my experiences between Philmont & NT and our lessons
learned, just drop me a line? I won't clutter up this list with that kind
of info. YIS. Mike (Philmont in '76, '02 & '04, Northern Tier in '03).
"Jon Mather"
<jmather@chartert To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
n.net> <philmont@troop47.com>
Sent by: cc:
owner-philmont@tr Subject: RE: [Philmont]: Northern Tier
oop47.com
09/29/2004 11:48
AM
Please respond to
philmont
On Northern Tier . . .
Month of June: Some people steer clear of Northern Tier in early summer
because the mosquitos are supposedly at their worst in June, but slowly
taper off in July, and are practically gone by August.
Summer Weather: Some people steer clear of Northern Tier in June because
they have heard it is still too cold.
My experience: I led a crew to Northern Tier in 2002 during the month of
June. There are mosquitoes to be dealt with on the portages and at dusk.
However, we had no problems with mosquitoes while paddling in the beautiful
Boundary Waters, which is how we spent the majority of our time. As long
as we used our DEET, long-sleeved shirts & zip-off pants, and occasionally
our net-covered headgear, we were fine. The weather was terrific, and it
was absolutely not too cold.
Other outfitters: We did not fully investigate other outfitters. Northern
Tier had a competitive price and met our needs, plus we wanted to support
the BSA outfitter.
Here are a few other advantages of a Northern Tier trip over Philmont, for
those who can’t get a Philmont reservations:
1. Easy to get reservations
2. Less physical fitness required for a Northern Tier experience.
3. Less prep time involved in getting your crew ready. Minimum
prep time should involve canoe practice, and basic good camping
skills.
4. Those who can’t go or shouldn’t go to Philmont due to foot,
knee, hip, or back problems that are worsened with hiking or
backpacking can usually go to Northern Tier, and have a really good
time, as long as they can haul a canoe overhead, or a gear bag across
the portages.
5. Scouts who are 13 can go to Northern Tier. (Philmont minimum
age is 14). However, they MUST be big and strong enough to haul a
heavy (60-75 pound) gear bag across portages.
6. A guide goes with your crew for the entire trip, to help you
with cooking, orienteering, etc.. (The guides can be inexperienced,
however, so your crew should be prepared to depend on their own
skills.)
7. It’s more of a true wilderness experience than Philmont,
depending on your paddling route. You might not see anyone else
except your own crew at Northern Tier for several days at a time,
whereas you see other people every day at Philmont. Even when you do
see others at Northern Tier, you might only see them in the distance
paddling their canoes.
8. Usually less money is needed for equipment to take to Northern
Tier than for a Philmont trip.
Also, regarding Northern Tier . .
1. Don’t let the mosquitoes scare you away from this great trip.
There are ways to handle the mosquitoes, which are only a problem
during the portages and at dusk (DEET on your face & hands and lower
legs, hats with nets for dinner time, long-sleeved shirts & zip-off
pants).
2. Like Philmont, Northern Tier is well-suited to BSA groups
because it takes care of most of the logistics for your high
adventure trip: food, tents, canoes, guides, and housing on the first
& last night.
3. Very relaxing and peaceful. Beautiful scenery 24/7. Lots of
wildlife. Lots of loons calling each other. Makes you feel like you
are in the middle of a National Geographic photograph.
If you can’t get reservations at Philmont, by all means go to Northern
Tier.
If you have scouts and leaders that can’t or shouldn’t do a Philmont trek,
they should definitely consider Northern Tier.
Jon Mather, Asst Scoutmaster
BSA Troop 387
Kingsport, TN
Northern Tier 2002
Philmont 1998, 2001, 2004
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-philmont@troop47.com [mailto:owner-philmont@troop47.com]
On Behalf Of CCPineoIII@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list philmont
Subject: Re: [Philmont]: Northern Tier
Just an observation:
Our 2 troop/venture crews in 2004 had no trouble getting into
Northern Tier (Atikokan) with a "late" reservation in 2003. Our
impression was that Northern Tier has tremendous carrying capacity
compared to Philmont or Sea Base.
More significant possibly: schools in our part of the country are
out mid- to late May, but go back into session as early as the first
Monday in August. Getting to a high adventure base in June is no
problem for our Scouts. Staying past July 30 is a huge problem. (It
remains to be seen how our local schools will treat those students
who return to school "late" in August 2005 because they were at the
National Jamboree.)
I would hazard a guess that Northern Tier is not "full" in June
because a lot of schools do not get out until the first or second
week of June in many parts of the country. There are probably a few
folks who think June is still too early for the ice to be out in
Minnesota and Ontario ;-)
Charlie Pineo
Troop 994
www.troop994.org
Woodstock, GA
In a message dated 9/29/2004 9:51:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
405geezer@igg-tx.net writes:
This indicates to me that Northern Tier is having trouble,
especially
during the first month of their season. Probably due to competition
from
the commercial outfitters which operate in Ely and provide an
excellent
alternative to Northern Tier. Hopefully, the situation will improve
as
"competition" tends to do that over time.
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Received on Wed Sep 29 15:52:57 2004
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