Re: [Philmont]: Northern Tier

Reading over the past few threads about Northern Tier, I just had to
respond eventually, as I'm alumni from their staff.

Northern Tier has a number of things going against it, but still
manages to put roughly five thousand kids on risk managed trips every
year. I'll run through a few things that I've noticed both as an
advisor and a staff person.

1) Northern Tier's main advantage is that it provides an interpreter
(not a guide) that should be doing program for you and your crew. They
should be telling you about the area, showing you how to bake over an
open fire, showing you how to know where the fish are and generally
making sure that you're having a good time. Sometimes this doesn't
happen, but we've all heard about the Ranger who sucked too. Their
interpreter stays with you the entire trip and usually becomes a part
of the trip. They also make sure that policies are followed and that
the trips happen safely and they carry the radio or satellite phone.
It's well known that other outfitters in the area tell their customers
if they run into trouble to find a northern tier group because they can
call for help.

2) Ely has an overabundance of outfitters, most of whom want Scout
business so they will do everything to get it. Many have stolen
materials from Northern Tier (manuals, etc) so that they can copy it
and offer if cheaper. Cheaper does not mean better - you don't get an
interpreter _or_ a guide on the cheaper trips. They won't show you how
to pack your canoe so that you can have the most fun and they really
don't care if you come back to the north woods. They will however make
sure that you get a cold beer when you pull up to the dock or public
landing, regardless of if it's legal or if you're with kids. I've seen
it and I've cleaned up the broken bottles from a Scout group I was
following once. These outfitters don't care if Scouts get banned
permanently from the BWCAW and are actively contributing to the bad
name we get there.

3) Northern Tier has to make sure that you follow policies, the
outfitters don't. As a result, many people will go to an outfitter
instead of ntier simply because of the fact that they don't want to
follow the rules. They have told ntier this and they will get theirs
in the end when a kid dies in a rapid because he hasn't wearing a
lifejacket or they get sued for abuse when a leader has been skinny
dipping with the kids (I've seen both of these things personally).

Long story short: if you want a good canoe tripping experience,
Northern Tier will provide it 99% of the time and prides itself on
having done that for 90-odd years. If you want a substandard "cheap"
trip, go for an outfitter and cold beer.

Cheers

Bing

On Sep 30, 2004, at 2:52 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:

> I got a most interesting letter a couple of days ago from Philmont
> regarding
> our high waiting list number. (our Venture Crew got a trek, but our
> Troop
> got a high waiting number)
>
> They said that, based on our high waiting number, we were unlikely to
> get a
> trek this year. But they indicated that there were openings at all
> three
> Northern Tier bases for 2005, and if we booked a tour there to arrive
> before
> July 5, 2005, we would get a guaranteed slot OF OUR CHOOSING at
> Philmont,
> Sea Base or HH Ranch in 2007.
>
> If we were a bigger troop, with more boys (and adults) we could
> interest in
> this, it would be a tempting offer. For myself, Northern Tier has
> always
> sounded more fun than Philmont. It really makes you wonder about what
> might
> be going on with Northern Tier, and the overall level of demand in BSA
> for
> high adventure.
>
> YiS,
>
> Mark Johnson
> SM T-281
> Longhorn Council
> The Colony TX
>
> "I used to be an Owl, and a good old Owl too!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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-------------------------------------------------------
As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
-------------------------------------------------------

 
Received on Thu Sep 30 12:07:23 2004