The Phil-list Sep_2006: [Philmont] Pack Size

From: Allen Jones <osuallen@cox.net>
Date: Wed Sep 20 2006 - 23:12:46 CDT

John

Philmont overpacking the food is a matter of opinion. There are crews who will be searching the swap boxes for all kinds of extra's and there will be crews who will dump an astonishing amount of food and everything in between. You don't have to carry anything that you don't want, or won't need.

Many on the list have suggested that crews get a few Philmont meals to use on their training hikes. We did that and it was very valuable. We found exactly what we liked and disliked and how much we would eat. We also found the level to which we were comfortable with pre-stripping the packaging on the meals. At each food stop, we purged the items that we knew would not get eaten or used and stripped the packaging we were comfortable with (we actually stripped very little packaging). We attacked it with a plan and usually did not take all that long.

We were vigilant about our equipment weights and our equipment list. We took more than some on the list suggest, but we took a whole lot less than some we saw on the trail. We took what we felt comfortable with, to be prepared for all reasonable/realistic situations.

Our base camp pack weights, with 2.33 days food and 3 liters of water each were 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 42, 43, 43 (again), and 51 lbs. The 51 lbs was one of the adults who just didn't feel comfortable with some of the reductions in personal gear that some of the rest of us did. The 35 was my son - who was a stick. He and I were outfitted virtually identically, but almost half of the 7 lb difference between us was in clothing weight (youth 14's weigh a lot less than adult 38's). The rest of the difference was I carried a larger share of crew gear.

All the adults had done a little backpacking - but not much. We used Coop and Wally's guide, information we gained from this list, and information from other sources to determine our equipment list. We then targeted the best combination of light weight and low cost that we could find.

As for pack size, I carried a Kelty Satori internal at 5000 ci. It was just about perfect for me. It was full with just a little extra room with our largest food load, but I had everything that I wanted. Another adult (not the 51 lb one) carried a Dana Design Terraplane internal at 5500 ci. He had a fair amount of room to spare. One of the youth carried a Kelty Super Tioga external - that particular model was about 5200 ci. He had tons of room to spare. Another youth carried a Kelty Tioga external rated at 4000 ci. His was just about perfect. Had just a little bit of room to spare (enough for the other kids to hide a 5+ lb rock in his pack on his birthday). We had one youth you carried a Kelty Yukon external at around 3000 ci - it was way too small (I tried to convince the mother, but she knew better - so we made do by lashing gear on and giving him a smaller share of crew gear).

So from our crew's experience, the Philmont recommendation of 4000 ci for external and 5000 ci for internal packs held pretty true. We went early in June and all carried 20 degree bags and thermals. If you are a later crew, some say you can carry 30 degree bags and no thermals. (I know there was still snow on Mt. Phillips when we stayed on it - so I was glad I had my 20 degree bag and thermals) If a person felt comfortable with the lighter bag, or wanted to go the ultra light route for all his gear, they might be able to reduce the pack size to one of the internals that are in the 4200-4500 ci range.

Hope this helps. As one guy on here says - your mileage may vary.

Allen Jones
Scoutmaster Troop 168
Oklahoma City
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Geyster
  To: Philmont List Member
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:08 PM
  Subject: [Philmont] Pack Size

It's amazing how this topic has gone off on so many tangents.

So back to my original questions below.

I'm looking for feedback from those who were at Philmont the last couple of years.

I've been using larger than need be packs for 36 years and its time to downsize.

I know Philmont (2004) over packs their food and makes you carry more stuff than you need.

Oh, and thank you to those folks who have already answered my questions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of John Geyster
  Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 10:19 PM
  To: Philmont List Member
  Subject: [Philmont] Pack Size

What size pack volume have folks been using at Philmont recently?

Internal or External?

Did you have enough room, to much or to little?

I used a 120 liter pack in 2004 and thinking of dropping down to a 70 liter in 2007. The 70 liter worked fine for a 7 day trip this summer with no re-supply. But then, I don't carry as much excess stuff as at Philmont.

John Geyster

SM Troop 15

Shelburne Falls, MA.

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Received on Wed Sep 20 23:17:03 2006

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