Good to see our Troop isn't the only one that likes to hide presents in
packs. Most of the scouts start out with 30 to 35 lb packs with the adults
running higher for the same reasons. I'm just curious how much volume 4
days of Philmont food currently takes up.
Our Troop also cleaned out the swap boxes and weight wasn't a problem. Some
of the lighter guys were also the strongest and fastest. So you can't
always to by the weight recommendations. You need to gauge the individual's
capabilities and that's another reason for tune up hikes. That's how we
decide to split up the Troop gear.
_____
From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Jones
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:13 AM
To: Philmont List Member
Subject: [Philmont] Pack Size
John
Philmont overpacking the food is a matter of opinion. There are crews who
will be searching the swap boxes for all kinds of extra's and there will be
crews who will dump an astonishing amount of food and everything in between.
You don't have to carry anything that you don't want, or won't need.
Many on the list have suggested that crews get a few Philmont meals to use
on their training hikes. We did that and it was very valuable. We found
exactly what we liked and disliked and how much we would eat. We also found
the level to which we were comfortable with pre-stripping the packaging on
the meals. At each food stop, we purged the items that we knew would not
get eaten or used and stripped the packaging we were comfortable with (we
actually stripped very little packaging). We attacked it with a plan and
usually did not take all that long.
We were vigilant about our equipment weights and our equipment list. We
took more than some on the list suggest, but we took a whole lot less than
some we saw on the trail. We took what we felt comfortable with, to be
prepared for all reasonable/realistic situations.
Our base camp pack weights, with 2.33 days food and 3 liters of water each
were 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 42, 43, 43 (again), and 51 lbs. The 51 lbs was one
of the adults who just didn't feel comfortable with some of the reductions
in personal gear that some of the rest of us did. The 35 was my son - who
was a stick. He and I were outfitted virtually identically, but almost half
of the 7 lb difference between us was in clothing weight (youth 14's weigh a
lot less than adult 38's). The rest of the difference was I carried a
larger share of crew gear.
All the adults had done a little backpacking - but not much. We used Coop
and Wally's guide, information we gained from this list, and information
from other sources to determine our equipment list. We then targeted the
best combination of light weight and low cost that we could find.
As for pack size, I carried a Kelty Satori internal at 5000 ci. It was just
about perfect for me. It was full with just a little extra room with our
largest food load, but I had everything that I wanted. Another adult (not
the 51 lb one) carried a Dana Design Terraplane internal at 5500 ci. He had
a fair amount of room to spare. One of the youth carried a Kelty Super
Tioga external - that particular model was about 5200 ci. He had tons of
room to spare. Another youth carried a Kelty Tioga external rated at 4000
ci. His was just about perfect. Had just a little bit of room to spare
(enough for the other kids to hide a 5+ lb rock in his pack on his
birthday). We had one youth you carried a Kelty Yukon external at around
3000 ci - it was way too small (I tried to convince the mother, but she knew
better - so we made do by lashing gear on and giving him a smaller share of
crew gear).
So from our crew's experience, the Philmont recommendation of 4000 ci for
external and 5000 ci for internal packs held pretty true. We went early in
June and all carried 20 degree bags and thermals. If you are a later crew,
some say you can carry 30 degree bags and no thermals. (I know there was
still snow on Mt. Phillips when we stayed on it - so I was glad I had my 20
degree bag and thermals) If a person felt comfortable with the lighter bag,
or wanted to go the ultra light route for all his gear, they might be able
to reduce the pack size to one of the internals that are in the 4200-4500 ci
range.
Hope this helps. As one guy on here says - your mileage may vary.
Allen Jones
Scoutmaster Troop 168
Oklahoma City
----- Original Message -----
From: John <mailto:johngeyster@comcast.net> Geyster
To: Philmont List <mailto:Philmont@troop47.com> Member
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: [Philmont] Pack Size
It's amazing how this topic has gone off on so many tangents.
So back to my original questions below.
I'm looking for feedback from those who were at Philmont the last couple of
years.
I've been using larger than need be packs for 36 years and its time to
downsize.
I know Philmont (2004) over packs their food and makes you carry more stuff
than you need.
Oh, and thank you to those folks who have already answered my questions.
_____
From: Philmont@troop47.com [mailto:Philmont@troop47.com] On Behalf Of John
Geyster
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 10:19 PM
To: Philmont List Member
Subject: [Philmont] Pack Size
What size pack volume have folks been using at Philmont recently?
Internal or External?
Did you have enough room, to much or to little?
I used a 120 liter pack in 2004 and thinking of dropping down to a 70 liter
in 2007. The 70 liter worked fine for a 7 day trip this summer with no
re-supply. But then, I don't carry as much excess stuff as at Philmont.
John Geyster
SM Troop 15
Shelburne Falls, MA.
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Received on Thu Sep 21 18:58:10 2006
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