Roy,
we had this happen this past Summer. One dad, not going to dignify him with any other title,
did something while he was Cubmaster to a Scout and that scout and his mother decided that
the Scout was 'too busy' with Football practice go to Philmont. Since Football did start until after the Philmont Trek this was quite a transparent lie. The Cubmaster's transgression was not criminal and did not involve other Scouts so he was allowed to go on the Trek with his Son and except for 2 incidents
on the trail he became an advisor by trip's end.
Our crew was small but If I had 2 full crews and good numbers in each might not go because of him?
I'd discuss with the Scoutmaster and Committeechair to get their support then refund his money and suggest that he seek two positions on the Councils' trek crew. If he needed a explanation then I seek a brave adult soul with a good memory to remind him of his past behavior.
Its really too bad ... Boys are not the only people who grow with the program... I have grown a great deal as a person and in my understanding of the BSA program. If this person has been an involved
Boy scout leader (not Cub Scout), then he may have grown a great deal.
However, some people believe personal growth stops at 18 or once a person becomes a parent.
Also, I have seen some (not all -- please do not take this as an offense!!) veterans who cannot 'take orders' from 13 and 14 year-olds. Some veterans understand chain of command and can place a 13 or 14 year-old above themselves in it! (I expect that these men where non-coms who had to train green LT.s!)
Our sister crew was not totally Scout led -- The lead advisor (veteran) 'picked' the crew leader (his Son). Our scouts elected their leader and when he did not come they elected another
and they (pretty much) followed his lead.
If you have not seen this man permit the Scouts to lead, then hand him his money and tell him why he can not go;UNLESS, you can fill an entire crew with Scouts and Adults who will follow his lead. One year is a short time to learn how to curb habits and behaviors learn over 14 or more years.
OR
Compromise. Sit down with him and another adult explain the concerns, give him 'provisional status,' create a camping /practice trekking plan where he must demonstrate that he can 'be on vacation' -- Make at least one trek longer than 3 days (require that he go on it) make it over 7 miles a day (our Cubmaster almost broke on the 15 mile day) and see how he does. The Scouts are in training for Philmont and so are ALL the adults his training would just have a different focus.
A lot of this will depend on the Dad. Our Dad created havoc amongst the Adults for a month before the trip (he was trying to take control, or show us he was experienced, or get kicked off the trek -- and he accomplished none of it!). I had worked hard for 9 months getting the crew ready and enlisted one dad ( a physician) and a former Scoutmaster (who had been to Philmont once). We had started working on equipment and such in the prior October but in the last couple of weeks he wanted us to consider low-end, cheap equipment). His son was lucky that we saw no heavy rain or really heavy winds!
If I had known of 2 Scouts who wanted to go on my crew but not with this man, then I'd have pulled up my suspenders grabbed a witness and handed his money back to him and told him that we have too many advisors and since his is the 'feared and distrusted' you do not need his services.
YiS
Sam Taylor 701-H1
Troop89, Austin Texas
"I once was a bear ..."
>>> On 19-Sep-07 at 9:17 PM, in message <MDAEMON-F200709192118.AA1853624pd50004427171@troop47.com>, "Roy Fisher" <rfisher003@satx.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings Oh Most Knowledgeable Phil-Pholk,
Since things are kind of slow while we wait for the 2009 Lotto, I need some
advice, direction, and/or counsel in dealing with an advisor who may need
some training in what an advisor's role is at Philmont.
Background: Several years ago at summer camp this adult did something that
caused a number of folks to not want to be in the same crew. I don't know
any of the details, but it involved some form of 'taking over' the control
and leadership of the Troop from the youth leaders and alienating all of the
adults who were in attendance. Apparently the offense was grievous. I have
observed some lesser demonstrations on other campouts.
Problem: Our Troop has secured two crews for 2008 and are fully subscribed.
This individual has signed up to attend with their son. In trying to
determine the make up of the two crews there have been some 'show stoppers'
from some of the other participants (youth and adults) to the point that if
they are in the crew with this person they will resign.
Assignment: What sources of information are there that describe, the more
detailed the better, the role of an adult advisor while with a crew at
Philmont? I already have Coop and Wally's Unofficial Guide and have given
this person a copy to read; I already have the Council and Unit Planning
Guide, Guidebook to Adventure and Treks books. Is there some publication,
website, etc. that I can also point this person too? I do plan on having a
heart-to-heart chat with this person about this issue, because I'm not sure
they are aware of the problem. Another Troop leader suggested that the
problem was 'almost intractable'. I think this person would enjoy the
opportunity to share Philmont with their son, but not at the expense of
everyone else in the crew.
Your HELP would be most appreciated.
Happy Trails,
Roy Fisher
PS If this person is a lurker on this list, I have intentionally not
mentioned names to protect the innocent. Please don't take offense, take
heart and take action.
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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
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As you gather around this virtual campfire with fellow
Scouts and Scouters, do your best to be trustworthy,
loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,
cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
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Received on Thu Sep 20 09:53:35 2007
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